Internet trolls, a study » Forum Post by Draginol

Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1877

Quoting Fistalis,

reply 23

Your stating that any digital purchase should be expected to be a loss? Why in the world would I purchase a game from a digital distribution service if I can assume its going to be eventually lost?

No. Only that IF you rely on always being able to re-access or redownload a purchase 'sometime' in the future you NEED to expect you will not be able to.

Life is finite. Things end.

You buy it online...you THEN MUST back it up YOURSELF. That is YOUR responsibility. The vendor has NO obligation to 'give it' to you again sometime in the future simply due to your incompetence/inability to protect your property/purchase from loss.

Heck, my purchases JUST for FSX would be in the hundreds of dollars [if not thousands]. I KNOW some of the sources are now gone...defunct. It will not affect me, however...as I have it ALL backed up...along with secondary redundancy backups.

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Quoting Jafo,

reply 26

Quoting Fistalis, reply 23Your stating that any digital purchase should be expected to be a loss? Why in the world would I purchase a game from a digital distribution service if I can assume its going to be eventually lost?

No. Only that IF you rely on always being able to re-access or redownload a purchase 'sometime' in the future you NEED to expect you will not be able to.

Life is finite. Things end.

You buy it online...you THEN MUST back it up YOURSELF. That is YOUR responsibility. The vendor has NO obligation to 'give it' to you again sometime in the future simply due to your incompetence/inability to protect your property/purchase from loss.

Heck, my purchases JUST for FSX would be in the hundreds of dollars [if not thousands]. I KNOW some of the sources are now gone...defunct. It will not affect me, however...as I have it ALL backed up...along with secondary redundancy backups.

How is that possible when the activation is reliant on the Service. Such as with impulse or steam? If those activation servers are taken down then what? Or If your old keys are no longer valid? This is the case with direct 2 drive. I have backups of most of the games. However I cannot install them since the direct 2 drive activations are no longer valid.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1877

Quoting Lord Xia,

reply 24

But then again, I am probably a troll of some kind.

...

Probably of the genus rakish-good-looks-with-an-eyepatch ....

But in reality...what possesses someone of the presumption that what is obtained online will ALWAYS be obtainable online?

It's utterly ridiculous.

Really it is.

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Quoting Jafo,

reply 28

Quoting Lord Xia, reply 24 But then again, I am probably a troll of some kind....

Probably of the genus rakish-good-looks-with-an-eyepatch ....

But in reality...what possesses someone of the presumption that what is obtained online will ALWAYS be obtainable online?

It's utterly ridiculous.

Really it is.

Your still ignoring the fact that the installers are reliant on the service. Similar to a steamworks game. If steam went off line you couldn't install and activate steam games. As I said.. I have backups. But they cannot be installed.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1877

Quoting Fistalis,

reply 27

How is that possible when the activation is reliant on the Service. Such as with impulse or steam? If those activation servers are taken down then what? Or If your old keys are no longer valid?

Let's go back to 'the car'...

WHEN petrol runs out you won't be 'entitled' to a refund on your car....you'll just need to find a second one....

...so you have matching bookends....

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People trolling come from all walks of life. It's a normal facet of interaction, even though the name is quite modern. As for the the "Entitled Gamers" which I assume is referring to those fellows who were complaining about Elemental and insulted Stardock when Frogboy was apologizing repeatedly and giving out free expansions like candy, well, if those were trolls they were shitty trolls. What did they think those posts would elicit? I really doubt that those posts can all be attributed to trolling.

Fistalis' situation is screwed up, but Jafo's correct in that you can't expect a service to last forever when the company that provides it might not. Of course, this isn't as simple as a bankruptcy, and it seems like Gamefly may well not be actually doing their best the way they say they are.

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Quoting Jafo,

reply 30

Quoting Fistalis, reply 27How is that possible when the activation is reliant on the Service. Such as with impulse or steam? If those activation servers are taken down then what? Or If your old keys are no longer valid?

Let's go back to 'the car'...

WHEN petrol runs out you won't be 'entitled' to a refund on your car....you'll just need to find a second one....

...so you have matching bookends....

So we should simply assume that digital purchases are rentals, and stop using it if we expect to play our games into the foreseeable future?

If thats your position fine.. cause thats exactly How I feel at this point, and was the sentiment of my previous posts, and the exact reasoning I won't use Digital distribution at this point.

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Quoting Cruxador,

reply 31

Fistalis' situation is screwed up, but Jafo's correct in that you can't expect a service to last forever when the company that provides it might not. Of course, this isn't as simple as a bankruptcy, and it seems like Gamefly may well not be actually doing their best the way they say they are.

Thats the cherry on top. IGN owned direct 2 drive, IGN didn't go under they simply sold the unit to gamefly.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1877

Quoting Fistalis,

reply 29

If steam went off line you couldn't install and activate steam games.

OK, so now it's online activation, not 'just' online distribution.

It'd be 'nice' if systems were in place to replace activation/server loss/failure...but guess what....all this activation drama is all thanks to online piracy.

As with all criminal activity...it screws it up for everyone, without favor.

You could be just as well served to be angry with the actions of the pirate. THEY made Gaming problematic for everyone.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1877

Before Brad strangles me .....

let's sneak back on topic.......

[he may not notice if we don't make a noise...]...

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Quoting Jafo,

reply 34

Quoting Fistalis, reply 29If steam went off line you couldn't install and activate steam games.

OK, so now it's online activation, not 'just' online distribution.

Always was. Many digital distribution services have their own method of activation for their particular copies of games. Its no different from buying an impulse game, a steam game or any other Game digitally.

Were not talking about failure. Were talking about shutting them down knowing full well that your customers still need them to play their games.

Quoting Jafo,

reply 34

As with all criminal activity...it screws it up for everyone, without favor.

You could be just as well served to be angry with the actions of the pirate. THEY made Gaming problematic for everyone.

Thats funny. Those activation servers are supposed to effect piracy. But I guarantee I could find pirated versions of all 19 of my games. So who did they actually hurt. Me the paying customer, and it didn't reduce piracy at all. Pirates still have access to games I paid for and I don't. So explain to me why I should pay for something When those who actually pay for it can lose access at the drop of a hat, while pirates are guaranteed access if they back it up.

I certainly don't advocate piracy. But its crazy that companies continue to force paying customers to use systems that only hurt the paying customers, while claiming they are doing it to fight piracy and when the system screws customers they blame the pirates who are going to pirate it no matter what system is used, so why use one that has the potential to screw the paying customers?

Jafo.. what do you do at stardock.. cause you seem rather.. uninformed about how digital game distribution works.

Okay I'll let the thread get back on topic.. don't kill jafo brad, He's useful in someway i'm sure.

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I figured his job was to piss people off on the forum.

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Quoting psychoak,

reply 37

I figured his job was to piss people off on the forum.

Are you suggesting that Brad should study Jafo? [e digicons]8(|[/e]

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Neilo

Join Date 04/2006

+128

Your issues Fistalis, is why i don't like gaming clients in any form. I do see the advantages, but they are far outweighed by the possibility, as in Fistalis case, of losing access to "your" games. (your: implying ownership or license, whatever you subscribe to, i like to think when i buy a game, i own it )

I'm not sure i get your car analogy Jafo, though i think i know what your trying to say, but i don't think it applies in this case.
Yes, the onus is on the user to ensure readily available access to your purchase via a backup, but when online activation is required, and denied, due to the purchase of the client, i think it moves from being a case of "buyer beware" to negligence on the client's behalf.
This is not a case of loss of license/title due to years passing by or anything, it's a denial of service, for what appears (i haven't read anything about this purchase) no good reason other than the purchasers inability to provide the service they have just bought.

I think it's very different to "entitled gamer". Entitled gamer assumes something above and beyond what is given with the initial purchase.

In any case, there is no easy fix, which is why i have shelves of cardboard with pretty pictures on them called game boxes. I do have some purchases with Impulse that are digital, mostly small titles i picked up cheap, the only title i have digitally that i really should pick up in a box is SINS.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1877

Quoting psychoak,

reply 37

I figured his job was to piss people off on the forum

I don't "piss people off"

By then I have already removed them from said forums...

You can always find pirated products on the Internet.

It is my job to "not care that you can" but only to remove you from being a participant upon these forums.

It's a thankless task but one I enjoy...because when done diligently it means FRIENDS of mine are not being screwed over by children who think it's KEWL [sic] to steal from 'the man'.

Treat that as you will...but I sleep well at night, all the same....

Please note...any typos are a result of it being Friday night...and not typical of 'usual' intercourse...

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1877

Quoting Fistalis,

reply 36

Jafo.. what do you do at stardock..

As little as I can get away with...but mostly I keep Stardock's forums to being a 'nice' place to be ...:0

There is more to being online in an Internet environment than just scoring brownie points with an adversary....sometimes it end in real issues...such as bullying and suicide....sounds extreme...but sadly it is not.

Stardock's admins make this corner of the Net a safe place to be...)

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1877

Now, I'd rather we got a wee bit back 'OT' before Frogboy drags me aside and employs chemical castration in order to get back OT.

I was born with them....would like to keep them a little longer at least...

Let's let Frogboy define 'entitled' as we have clearly been sailing off on a wild tangent....

...then again....perhaps that's all about what it really is...

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1877

BTW...just as an aside... 14 threads have just been removed...to keep our forums enjoyable. You don't [usually] see them but they are removed 'efficiently'.

Stardock's admins are the unsung 'heroes' of our little end of the woods....on topic, or not...

[not bad, considering I've been having an in-depth discussion with a bottle of red... after the odd beer or 5]

Now....back to 'trolls...a study" ...

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Gamefly is still adding their back catalog to the new service. Temporary inconvenience, and they did warn everyone beforehand. So...back to the original topic.

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Neilo

Join Date 04/2006

+128

Quoting Jafo,

reply 43

BTW...just as an aside... 14 threads have just been removed...to keep our forums enjoyable. You don't [usually] see them but they are removed 'efficiently'.

Your welcome! [e digicons]

[/e]
For every one i reported another popped up...You just know there will be a spam post from this guy, reply 5, within a few days, seems that's the new MO. Make a few seemingly harmful replies before unleashing their spam.

Back to the OP. I agree with this,

Quoting Rovert10,

reply 2

Err... idk... I am pretty sure we all done some trolling in the past before.

It's just that the majority of us do not do so incessantly or deliberately, since trolling can be subjective. it's the nature of the interwebs really. Brads experience is obviously closely tied to his 9-5 (he wishes i bet). What i see in Stardockia, is the "I'm going to argue with every comment and position anyone posts in my thread" thread.

There have been one or two lately, mostly locked, so i won't link them, but anyone that starts a thread simply to refute any other reply annoys the hell out of me.

Especially when it seems obvious, that was their only intent.

<off topic digression> Jafo, you at Clipsall this weekend?<off topic digression>

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1877

Quoting Neilo,

reply 45

For every one i reported another popped up...You just know there will be a spam post from this guy, reply 5, within a few days, seems that's the new MO. Make a few seemingly harmful replies before unleashing their spam.

Neilo...I'd already removed him [just missed that comment]...but it's now gone too.

And no...I'll not be at the Clipsal...too close to the GrandPrix...though the guys who come over from Adelaide to stay with us for the GP will be there...

Trolls are interesting creatures really....can even be mildly entertaining....though it's often a race as to whose ADD kicks in first that sees them 'gone' ...

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From what I've read in this thread it's my opinion that Fistalis is NOT an "entitled gamer" However the reality of DD is that the company providing the service could go belly up and that would be the end of the account access. So far the more likely problem is the DD can be sold and the new owner may not do things the way the old owner did them.

Entitlement, to me, seems to come out in examples like....

Sins Trinity becoming available on Steam and customers of the Impulse version expecting free keys to the Steam version.

Buying a game version A and when version Gold comes out expecting Gold for free.

Buying Game Prime and then two years later expecting Game Squeal 2 to be the exact same game with better graphics.

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Almost forgot.

"I'm a paying customer. WHERE IS MY PATCH?"

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2422

I don't think fistalis is being entitled here.

Imy the movies I bought through vudu suddenly couldn't work anymore I'd be ticked. Same for any digital service.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1877

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 49

I don't think fistalis is being entitled here.

Save me from this detour.....

You wandered off into the ether and everyone picked on me....

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