Novice questions: bows and archers » Forum Post by Aotrs Commander

The Bows are awesome. Lower Initiative cost, and the Ram's Horn Longbow ignores 50% defense. (very scary) So yes, the point is worth it if you want to archer it up. Just keep in mind mages ignore armor outright and can compete with archers in damage, so bows aren't the end all ranged solution. I usually make my archers light, with lots of initiative and damage traits, so they can kill stuff before they get close. Armored archers are usually not worth it, unless you want a city defender unit and have access to good chainmail (masterwork chainmail is awesome for good armor and low initiative cost) and lots of metal. Plate archers, well they will hit *very slow* (-12 Initiative) so I never build them.

Now to the real stuff. You can build melee units that can tank archer arrows, especially mounted on horse, so if you go pure archer you will have a problem when you up the AI difficulty. More AI HP, damage and armor means your bows will do less damage against better AI's (very noticeable), and they will be able to reach you and crush you with hammers. This is why mages are usually your best bet at higher levels since they ignore armor outright, and opens up a lot of other goodies as well along the tech path. (bows are an optional path for warfare, since you usually want the armor stuff etc. first)

So when you are facing better AI's you will want some "tanks" to slow the melee down so your archers/mages can keep shooting, and that means melee troops. The result is that eventually your army will specialize more into a balance of ranged, tanks etc. depending on your sovereigns/champions. It is possible to make that insane "glass cannon" armies with pure ranged and magic that obliterates everything, but it gets harder when the AI gets better, and you try not selecting a mage champion/sovereign

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Thanks. I was surprised there wasn't a stratagy FAQ or anything.

I played my first game on very easy settings as defaul Pariden (and spent most of the game with all my champions on one army...)

I then tried the scenario, whcih I suspect must have a default difficulty. I was laggin well behind the enemy AI for most of the game, but towards the point I gave up, I'd clawed my way to parity with the bottom end AI. Trouble was, my soverign's army (I'd gone for a Commander this time), which constsied of him, a henchman bard (not very wel optimised, I'm still trying to work out what I can do with henchmen), a couple of tank-y melee unit, and the rest with the best bows availble and all offense/initiative boosts.

I then started to run into one of the Empire factions (Oracle's, I think...?) which seemed to consist of armies full of nothing but archers. As my foot units - even with Rush - couldn't get to them, and they appeared to be reasonably heavily armoured, I couldn't kill them fast enough to stop them picking on one unit (poor henchman...) and killing, since I wasn't able to one-shot the enemy archers. (Granted, it didn't help that the AI decided to show up with like, six or seven armies: I could have taken them one by one, but not all at once). And I was a long way from my reserves. (Granted, I did find the lack of a life mage healing to be nearly crippling: that needs to be as much a priority as Haste, next time...!) So I've given that one up as a bad job (well, anyway, the top AI is like 400 or somethign rank and I'm still only about 200-ish anyway...!)

So I've been looking at my custom options.

First pass is Men (for henchman), No armour (I never really built any heavy armoured unit towards the end there, and I was thinking of just going archers; maybe I should look at the unrest one instead) Archers, Enchanters, Wanderlust (for quest maps and leather), Quick (I think that was it). I ummed and erred about Master Scouts, because I did find my unit lagging a bit wandering in forest, but I wasn't sure how ultimately good that is (I mean, it's good, but is it better than +10% initiatuive, given that I'll be focussing on improving that?)

Soverign is General, Life/Air adept, Weak (going mage), Brilliant, and tow other I forget, I think it's initative and the one with extra hits because I had a point spare.

Thoughts?

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Quoting Aotrs Commander,

reply 2

I couldn't kill them fast enough to stop them picking on one unit (poor henchman...) and killing, since I wasn't able to one-shot the enemy archers.

As air mage you have guardian wind (+dodge against ranged attacks), using that will let your stuff survive archer fire better. Also, hammers with crushing blow can easily oneshot low armor archers. Get some lightning hammers or warhammers and stuff will die fast.

(Granted, I did find the lack of a life mage healing to be nearly crippling: that needs to be as much a priority as Haste, next time...!)

I almost never use healing spells at all. Potions etc. do the trick (buy them in shops) You also have the possibility of the Blessing of Restoration spell which gives you the heal spell on one champion/Sovereign for 1 mana upkeep at the Sorcery tech if you think you really need it. (low tier magic tree) For me Life Magic is all about Growth and Crusades. (+1 level for all trained units)

So I've given that one up as a bad job (well, anyway, the top AI is like 400 or somethign rank and I'm still only about 200-ish anyway...!)

My current game the top AI has 400 power and I have 33. (Insane AI, early game ) It's by no means over if you can regroup back at home. The power rating is not "real". The AI's usually have too much pop and gold inflating the power, as well as tons of badly equipped/designed units. Keep your research and production up, and you can catch up easily with quality designed units. Remember full accessory and traits, as the default ones are really bad. (Default mage vs selfdesigned mage can be as much as 100% more damage difference)

Soverign is General, Life/Air adept, Weak (going mage), Brilliant, and tow other I forget, I think it's initative and the one with extra hits because I had a point spare.

Consider going warlock and water mage instead. Until you have seen 1 cast turn Blizzards with full evoker, you haven't seen real mage destruction yet. ^^

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Quoting sjaminei,

reply 3

As air mage you have guardian wind (+dodge against ranged attacks), using that will let your stuff survive archer fire better. Also, hammers with crushing blow can easily oneshot low armor archers. Get some lightning hammers or warhammers and stuff will die fast.

The depressing part was I was, and it still didn't help much... My mace-men just couldn't get there fast enough. Clearly need mounted troops for that...

Quoting sjaminei,

reply 3

I almost never use healing spells at all. Potions etc. do the trick (buy them in shops) You also have the possibility of the Blessing of Restoration spell which gives you the heal spell on one champion/Sovereign for 1 mana upkeek at the Sorcery tech if you think you really need it. (low tier magic tree) For me Life Magic is all about Growth and Crusades. (+1 level for all trained units)

It was more about trying to patch up my veteran units (I only far too infrequently remember to use the shops, though!) My plan this time though had been to kill everything fast, and kite enemy melee units: which worked fine until I ran into massed enemy archers.

So I've given that one up as a bad job (well, anyway, the top AI is like 400 or somethign rank and I'm still only about 200-ish anyway...!)

Quoting sjaminei,

reply 3

My current game the top AI has 400 power and I have 33. (Insane AI, early game ) It's by no means over if you can regroup back at home. The power rating is not "real". The AI's usually have too much pop and gold inflating the power, as well as tons of badly equipped/designed units. Keep your research and production up, and you can catch up easily with quality designed units. Remember full accessory and traits, as the default ones are really bad. (Default mage vs selfdesigned mage can be as much as 100% more damage difference)

Well, that's something, I guess. Maybe then what I need to do is brign heavy mounted reinforcements, and just abandon my veterans to losses or garrison duty at this stage.

(I almost never use the default units, so there's that!)

Quoting sjaminei,

reply 3

Consider going warlock and water mage instead. Until you have seen 1 cast turn Blizzards with full evoker, you haven't seen real mage destruction yet. ^^

That's something else to look at then! Thanks.

(I tried to post this some hours ago, but the forum just wouldn't have it...)

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As an Air mage, you can knock down those archers until you can reach them.

Life is the best spell school if your strategy involves high level monsters (Summoner/Beastmaster). Otherwise, it is still pretty good because of Sovereign's Call.

General > Warlock

I would rate Men as second best race, after Mancers. I get the impression most people value Men most, though. A good choice in any case.

Your faction traits are also all very strong. The only one you're missing is Master Scouts

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Quoting Fallenchar,

reply 5

I would rate Men as second best race, after Mancers. I get the impression most people value Men most, though. A good choice in any case.

What about Tarth? That double strike seems pretty good... Especially with bows and ranged stuff

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Tarth could work. I just wanted to congratulate the OP, Aotrs, on the great choices he made.

My statement that most people prefer Men was simply based on my lurking of these forums...

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"He prefers the company of men..."

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Quoting Fallenchar,

reply 5

As an Air mage, you can knock down those archers until you can reach them.

What spell is that from? I think I'm just up to level three or four (I've just got the "teleport to anywhere in your own territory" one.)

Quoting Fallenchar,

reply 5

Life is the best spell school if your strategy involves high level monsters (Summoner/Beastmaster). Otherwise, it is still pretty good because of Sovereign's Call.

Is that better to use than, say Meditation or Propaganda (which I tend to use on my not-Fortress cities, as that seemed to keep me float in both gilder and mana?)

Quoting Fallenchar,

reply 5

General > Warlock

I would rate Men as second best race, after Mancers. I get the impression most people value Men most, though. A good choice in any case.

Your faction traits are also all very strong. The only one you're missing is Master Scouts

The question is, is Master Scout better than one of the others, and if so, what would you drop? I was having a big debate on that one myself: in the end, what swayed me was the thought that beast and possibly champions I picked up might not benefit from it, and thus slow the army they were attached to down.

Quoting Fallenchar,

reply 7

Tarth could work. I just wanted to congratulate the OP, Aotrs, on the great choices he made.

Thanks! Nice to know I'm not that far off the mark...!

Quoting davrovana,

reply 8

"He prefers the company of men..."

*snerk*

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Enchanters is the best trait in the game, in my not-so-humble opinion. There are 5-8 other good ones, it depends on personal preference. I never pick Archers and love Binding, for example.

Sovereign's Call gives a set (growth) bonus, while Meditation and Propaganda become more powerful if you have more Essence. Keep in mind the gildar from Propaganda are divided by the tax rate, making it a mediocre spell.

I have to check for the names of those spells. There's also Pull of the earth, a spell in the Magic Tech. Come to think of it, one of the other spells might be in Aeromancy, not Air.

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Quoting Fallenchar,

reply 10

I never pick Archers and love Binding, for example.

But Archers is amazing!

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Quoting Fallenchar,

reply 10

Keep in mind the gildar from Propaganda are divided by the tax rate, making it a mediocre spell.

Didn't know that. It which case, it might be worth phasing that one out for something else as the game progresses, then.

(Damn, is it just me or is it really hard to post on this forum? I keep getting the "your message got all jumbled on the way to our server" thing nearly every time I hit submit...)

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