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Phoenixboi
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Where is the Justice???

May 30, 2005 2:29:09 AM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums


Abu Bakar Bashir a convicted terrorist gets 30 months Jail for masterminding the BAli bombings which killed 202 people including 88 Aussies.



Schapelle Corby gets 20 Years Jail for allegedly smuggling 4 kgs of Marijuana into Bali.

WHERE IS THE JUSTICE??
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Phoenixboi
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Reply #1 May 30, 2005 2:50:46 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
This not only stinks.. but I smell a lot of rats involved!
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Phoenixboi
Gene Nash
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Reply #2 May 30, 2005 3:54:56 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
It's B.S. Seriously F-ed up priorities. The sentences should be traded, at the least.

But they have a lot more to fear in retribution from their own Muslim extremists than from the outraged opinions of foreigners.

They're just too stupid to see that no amount of kowtowing will appease the extremists. They're set up for more bloodshed no matter how they handle it.

What a screwed up country that cares more about a bag of possibly planted pot than the lives of 202 people.
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Phoenixboi
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Reply #3 May 30, 2005 4:12:16 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
What a screwed up country that cares more about a bag of possibly planted pot than the lives of 202 people.


Exactly!! and Im sure Bashir isnt locked up in a shanky prison cell like Schapelle is. Im sure he is being treated very well.
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Reply #4 May 30, 2005 7:06:30 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I hope you saw Media Watch tonight, PB. If not, seriously suggest you try and catch it at 11:50pm on Wednesday. Liz Jackson offers a very balanced overview of the Corby trial and - perhaps more pertinently - the Australian media coverage of it.

As well as debunking many of the arguments you present on your previous thread on this subject, they cover this supposed outrage too. Abu Bakar Ba'asyir was ACCUSED only, not convicted. Big difference. The three who were CONVICTED of involvement - Amrozi, Sumudra and Mukhlas - each received the death sentence. Is that justice enough for you?

Sorry PB, I'm sure you mean well, but you - and many others, it seems - have been taken for a ride by unscrupulous shock jocks, TV stations practising chequebook journalism, exclusive deals, bankrupt self-publicising entrepreneurs, money-grubbing lawyers and xenophobia-mongering newspapers ... media life as usual, in other words.
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Reply #5 May 30, 2005 10:41:25 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Lemme let 'cha in on a little secret I've learned from working in a jail for over 11 years. Justice is all about the money or the clout or the P.R. in any given case. It's about how many chips you can put on the table to stay in the game, that's all.

No, this don't surprise me one damn bit...
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Phoenixboi
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Reply #6 May 30, 2005 3:46:53 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
SO Furry.. it's like Osama ..he didnt actually fly the planes that crashed into the buildings, but he was the mastermind yeah? So he like Bashir is just as guilty as the ones who flew them or planted the bombs.

There is much more to this case than what we are being shown. There is much more depth to the corruption than the australian public are aware of.

Link
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Reply #7 May 30, 2005 4:58:07 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
' SO Furry.. it's like Osama ..he didnt actually fly the planes that crashed into the buildings, but he was the mastermind yeah? So he like Bashir is just as guilty as the ones who flew them or planted the bombs.'

No PB, it's not that at all. But if and when Osama Bin Laden is captured, I still expect him to have to face trial. Abu Bakar Ba'asyir did, and like it or not he was NOT convicted on charges of masterminding the Bali bombings. Schappelle Corby WAS convicted - and in a trial, incidentally, that Alexander Downer (Australian foreign minister) described this morning as being more transparent than it would have been if it had been conducted in Australia!

What you appear to be saying is that Abu Bakar Ba'asyir (and Osama Bin Laden) are so obviously guilty that they don't NEED to be found so in court. And once people start talking like this, any notion of the 'justice' you profess to be so concerned about goes right out of the window.

Bottom line: You've got the facts all wrong, PB - but hey, why let the facts get in the way of an opportunity for flexing your puffed-up nationalistic outrage?
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Phoenixboi
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Reply #8 May 30, 2005 5:20:27 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Link

Alleged terror leader Abu Bakar Bashir was sentenced today to two and a half years in prison for criminal conspiracy for the 2002 Bali bombings, which killed 202 people, including 88 Australians.

they found that he was linked to lead-up to the Bali attack and convicted him under Indonesia's standard criminal code. At the start of today's verdict hearing, dozens heavily armed officers escorted Bashir into the courtroom where he smiled and told reporters that US President George W Bush was "evil". About 1,000 policemen secured the building in south Jakarta. About 100 of Bashir's supporters were allowed inside and 400 gathered outside the court. Shortly before the verdict was handed down, Bashir said that if he was found guilty it would be a "tyrannical verdict", but he appealed to his followers not to react with violence. Bashir maintained that Bush as an "enemy of Allah" had pressured Indonesia to jail him to stop him campaigning for Islamic law.
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Reply #9 May 30, 2005 5:27:04 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
No PB, it's not that at all. But if and when Osama Bin Laden is captured, I still expect him to have to face trial.


U dont think Osama was behind the atacks on Sept 11??
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Reply #10 May 30, 2005 5:37:58 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Abu Bakar Ba'asyir was convicted of criminal conspiracy only .The sentence would have been far greater had the prosecution been able to prove direct involvement in the Bali bombings, but they WEREN'T. Do try to read beyond the simplistic headlines they feed you, Phoenixboi.

In the meantime, the repercussions upon Indonesians within Australia appear to be starting already. Hope you're feeling proud PB - this is YOUR lynch mob.
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Reply #11 May 30, 2005 5:41:19 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Hope you're feeling proud PB - this is YOUR lynch mob.


Not only my lynch mob.. it has to do with the anger that most australians are feeling about this injustice
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Reply #12 May 30, 2005 5:43:54 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
'U dont think Osama was behind the atacks on Sept 11??'

What I think - or what anybody else thinks - is immaterial. One of the reasons the law exists is to ensure that no one gets incarcerated merely because somebody else 'thinks' they are guilty. Burden of proof, innocent until proven guilty, ring any bells? This kind of jibe is beneath you.

So, are you saying Osama Bin Laden ISN"T entitled to a fair trial?
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Reply #13 May 30, 2005 5:45:11 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
'it has to do with the anger that most australians are feeling about this injustice'
Not most, just the gullible and the rednecks.
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Reply #14 May 30, 2005 5:55:55 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
What rock do you have your head under Furry? He has admitted to it!!
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Reply #15 May 30, 2005 6:09:11 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
' What rock do you have your head under Furry? He has admitted to it!!'
Then he will be found guilty, won't he? Either way, you either think he IS entitled to a fair trial or that he ISN'T. Once you start introducing exceptions to this right, as I said before, you can kiss goodbye to any hope of the 'justice' you claim to be so concerned about.
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Reply #16 May 30, 2005 6:14:54 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Either way, you either think he IS entitled to a fair trial or that he ISN'T. Once you start introducing exceptions to this right, as I said before, you can kiss goodbye to any hope of the 'justice' you claim to be so concerned about.


of course he will be tried and he will be found guilty cause he has already admitted that he did it.

Do you think Schapelles trial was fair and just?

Tampering with evidence which has now gone "missing" doesnt seem fair to me.
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Reply #17 May 31, 2005 4:36:56 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
'of course he will be tried and he will be found guilty cause he has already admitted that he did it'
Yes, in all probability - although an admission doesn't necessarily equate to a conviction. But the point is that even he is entitled to a TRIAL.

'Do you think Schapelles trial was fair and just?'
On the basis of the media beat-up to date, I really couldn't say. (And I am not a lawyer, let alone a lawyer versed in Indonesian law.) Just as I couldn't say whether she is innocent or guilty. What I do know is that she has the right to appeal under the Indonesian legal process.

Furthermore PB, no matter how often you cite investigations into alleged drug trafficking by Australian bag handlers, there is not a single scrap of evidence that they ever put anything in Schappelle Corby's luggage. (And why would they? It would hardly be a clever financial move to send a total stranger out of the country with 9lb of YOUR drugs! )

So where does that leave us? Schappelle Corby's case still essentially boils down to 'It's not mine, and I don't know how it got there.' On the basis of this, how you and your lynch mob pals can be so unshakeably confident of her innocence escapes me. Unless you really do take everything Channel 9 throws at you uncritically, and then go running back for more. Like I said back on your other thread, your naivete is astounding.
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Reply #18 May 31, 2005 5:11:03 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
(And why would they? It would hardly be a clever financial move to send a total stranger out of the country with 9lb of YOUR drugs! )


You obviously have no idea of howthese people work.

Unless you really do take everything Channel 9 throws at you uncritically,


I dont watch channel 9.

Have you read her trial? How much of it have you followed? Or are you only going on what the media have told you?

The evidence was tampered with. There was no scientific analysis on the drugs done and no fingerprints were carried out. Wouldnt that be the sensible thing to do to find out where the drugs came from and if her fingerprints were on the bag??

your naivete is astounding.


I think you really need to stop attacking me personally and start looking at the facts here Furry!
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Reply #19 May 31, 2005 6:51:00 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
'I think you really need to stop attacking me personally ...'
No personal insult intended. But if you really want to rail against miscarriages of justice, I see many infinitely more convincing causes around at the moment, and much closer to home.

'... and start looking at the facts here Furry!'
As for facts, there are very few hard and fast ones in evidence here. This is why I choose to keep an open mind, rather than leading the hordes of terrified villagers, all carrying their burning torches, up the rocky path to burn down castle Balistein. Why don't we all just calm down and see what happens in her upcoming appeal?
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Reply #20 May 31, 2005 7:02:51 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Why don't we all just calm down and see what happens in her upcoming appeal?


This will be interesting to watch.
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Reply #21 June 1, 2005 2:04:45 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
PB, the justice is in the fact that 3 of the people who did the Bali bombing are about to be killed. Yes receive the death penalty. If you go to Indonesia and you smuggle drugs, you deserve to be removed from the gene pool for your utter stupidity. Because everyone knows they have the death penalty for drugs. If she has been wrongly convicted, and I can't say whether she has or not (but some inside sources I have in the Australian Police suggest to me she hasn't been) because I have seen nothing of the trial bar Schapelle standing there crying her little (crocodile?) tears, then that is unfortunate, but no more unfortunate than say Rene Rivkin's conviction or countless others who are wrongly convicted all over the world. Schappelle's situation is certainly better than being held for 3 years without any charge being laid at all, which is what happens to Australians who get arrested by the Americans. But nobody seems to care about that.

Presumption of innocence is a concept that is being lost in the USA and Australia through trial by media and terrorism-phobia. The Indonesians on the other hand at least uphold it regarding some people
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Reply #22 June 1, 2005 8:32:23 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
it has to do with the anger that most australians are feeling about this injustice


I don't mean to weigh in late in this debate, but having read this particular comment of yours, I have to say something. I am not angry at the process Schapelle's had to endure. I am sad she had to go through it but I've not been angry.

However, what has angered me is the knee-jerk reactions to her sentence. I don't mean what I am saying as a personal insult or attack. I think Corby's family and friends have ever right to feel disappointed and perhaps bitter or angry, but the self-righteous indignation, brow beating and anger from the general Australian public won't help her one bit. It is rare I actually agree with anything John Howard says, but last night on Lateline, he said this sort of reaction will only be detrimental. What happened yesterday at the Indonesian Embassy personally disgusts me.

I'm sure if the situation were reversed, the Australian public would be fully supportive of our judicial process. I can't comment on the Indonesian judicial system because I have no idea how it works. But I have the same respect for their processes as I do for ours and trust that, in time, justice will prevail.

I have one other thing to say about this. There has been a lot of talk about 'the facts', as derived from various media sources. As Champas rightly points out above, in a lot of respects this particular trial has been conducted through the media. But no matter which media source is referred to, all sources are subjective. I try to keep this in mind all the time, particularly when the story in question is so emotionally charged.
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Reply #23 June 1, 2005 9:10:11 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
If you go to Indonesia and you smuggle drugs, you deserve to be removed from the gene pool for your utter stupidity


This is what doesnt make sense to me. Why would she smuggle drugs into the country?

(but some inside sources I have in the Australian Police suggest to me she hasn't been)


Which only shows me that the AFP are no angels themselves and this could very well be a nice coverup for them. Just look at the news showing the wonderful security screening that Sydney airport has had recently. Makes you think doesnt it?

Guys the underworld of drugs and corruption is one that would make your hair stand on end. They do what is needed to get their way. There is more to this than meets the eye.

Im working on senses other than my eyes and ears and emotions here. Something inside me tells me this doesnt add up. If that makes me look cooky, well so be it.
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Reply #24 June 1, 2005 10:25:38 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I don't think you are the least bit 'kooky', as you put it. I think you are a caring, compassionate person who really feels for the situation Schapelle has found herself in. But the media has played on your and the general public's emotions so much throughout this trial, I wouldn't be surprised if some still believed her innocent even if the evidence proved otherwise.
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Reply #25 June 1, 2005 11:10:18 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
So, are you saying Osama Bin Laden ISN"T entitled to a fair trial?


I say forget trial,forget capturing him, shoot to kill. Period. (and i'm pretty much a pacifist, but not when it concerns him.. )
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