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dabe
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Loony Loopy Luddite

I'm just wondering...................

January 17, 2005 11:09:23 AM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I have seen this less than affectionate description of left-leaning individuals here at JU, and admittedly, I did not know what a luddite is. So, off I went to OneLook Link my online dictionary of choice to look up the word. Following is the definition I found:

Lud·dite (plural Lud·dites)

noun
1. opponent of new technology: somebody who opposes technological or industrial innovation

2. history 19thC protester against technology: a worker involved in protests in Britain in the 1810s against new factory methods of production and in favor of traditional methods of work

[Early 19th century. Origin uncertain: according to tradition, named for Ned Ludd , an 18th-century farm worker in Leicestershire, England, who destroyed two stocking frames in a fit of rage.]

Lud·dite adjective
Lud·dism noun

OK, so that's the definition. Hmmmmm........ learn something new every day. But, for the life of me, what has this got to do with being a left-leaning person? I am certainly left. But, I am not by any stretch opposed to new technology or innovations. And, I sure was not around in the 19th century to be part of the Luddite Movement. So, this is an analogy, or description, or simile, or whatever, that I just don't understand. In fact, the only reason that I believe the likes of some extremist righties are using it is because it begins with "L" and sounds "clever".

Any of you lefties out there wanna help me out? I've got a few righties blacklisted, and I sure am not opening up my blog to them to answer this. I really do not want this post to become a slugfest, and as word of warning, if anyone gets particularly hateful, I will delete the post, unless of course it becomes fodder for ridicule.
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dabe
Myrrander
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #1 January 17, 2005 11:16:37 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I've found it amusing that "luddite" has gotten applied to the left, especially considering our stances on stem cell research and other advanced technologies. But if you don't love the smarter bombs, then you must hate technology, right?

And it's pretty silly to call someone a "luddite" when you are having a conversation with them...over a computer. For obvious reasons.

In my experience, the most technologically averse people I know are fundamentalist Christians. Most of them are also pretty a-political as well, so they aren't "rightwingers" or anything of the sort. But that's just anecdotal evidence on my part.

Cheers.
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Lee1776
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Reply #2 January 17, 2005 12:03:19 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I think dabe they are using it as a metaphor. I think they are meaning that you are trying to stay in the past eight years of left wing whacko and not willing to leave the one time hippy generation behind for a new start. i.e. not wanting to embrace new thought. But I may be wrong.
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Reply #3 January 17, 2005 12:20:20 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
i.e. not wanting to embrace new thought. But I may be wrong.


Not wanting to embrace new thought?????? So, how does conservative values equate to new thought? Isn't that oxymoronic? As for staying in the past 8 years of democratic control of the US, it's not about that. Left wing, liberal thought is a philosophy for living. It's not about hanging onto the Clinton years. That's ludicrous. And, if that's what luddite means to righties, then I think I've adequately debunked it, as has Myrrander.

Lee, thanks for the interpretation, but I think it's a major stretch of the imagination to use the term luddite that way. As a metaphor, it's definitely loony and loopy. Worse even than mod's right wing/left wing mdtaphor.
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dabe
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Reply #4 January 17, 2005 12:26:25 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
And it's pretty silly to call someone a "luddite" when you are having a conversation with them...over a computer. For obvious reasons


Yeah. Must from someone who thought luddite was a curse word.
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Lee1776
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Reply #5 January 17, 2005 12:57:25 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Lee, thanks for the interpretation, but I think it's a major stretch of the imagination to use the term luddite that way.


I think so too. But thats the best I could come up with, with out just saying that it sound good with lefty loopy.
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Dr Guy
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #6 January 17, 2005 3:05:11 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Read Al Gore.  Earth in the Balance.  Check out ELF or Greenpeace.

And delete this since it does not agree with your views.

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Myrrander
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Reply #7 January 17, 2005 3:21:23 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
It seems to be a case of people using words for which they have no true understanding of the meanings.

But I see that a lot.
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Reply #8 January 17, 2005 3:55:14 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Having already adopted 'Loopy' and 'Loony' to apply to those with whom he disagrees, poor old frothing-at-the-mouth right-wing paranoiac Dr. Guy struggles to find another insult beginning with 'L' . Mistakenly, he thinks 'Luddite' might even make him sound learned. He attempts to deflect any attempts to take him to task over this by telling the critic to go away and read a book by Al Gore. End of story.
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Myrrander
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Reply #9 January 17, 2005 3:57:11 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Well, I'll admit, the alliterative effect is masterful. Or something.
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Dr Guy
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Reply #10 January 17, 2005 4:05:43 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Having already adopted 'Loopy' and 'Loony' to apply to those with whom he disagrees, poor old frothing-at-the-mouth right-wing paranoiac Dr. Guy struggles to find another insult beginning with 'L' . Mistakenly, he thinks 'Luddite' might even make him sound learned. He attempts to deflect any attempts to take him to task over this by telling the critic to go away and read a book by Al Gore. End of story


I take it you did not?  Since you added nothing except ignorance to the discussion?  I guess you just cant stand to read, and must just denigrate that which you dont know.  You got 2 of 3 so far.  Want to try for the trifecta?

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Reply #11 January 18, 2005 3:25:05 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
'Trifecta'
Ooh, a new word, and three syllables to boot! Top marks, Dr. Guy!

A little more seriously (well, as seriously as I can manage given the subject matter), Dr. Guy may argue - as indeed he does, on a subsequent thread - that LLL is a term that only applies to a very specific subset of the Left. However, if he really meant this, then he wouldn't use it indiscriminately in response to almost anything with which he disagrees - which is of course exactly what he does.

I have to say, I love the increasingly shrill cry to 'read Al Gore' when we question Dr. Guy's use of the term 'Luddite'. Can you imagine name-calling those in Dr. Guy's area of the politic spectrum, and - when they protested - imploring them to read, say, Ayn Rand's 'Atlas Shrugged' in order to determine why the insult was appropriate? Laughable.

And for all the debate over 'luddite', why does he choose to use both 'loony' AND 'loopy'? They are practically synonymous - why not use just one or the other? Other than the alliteration, there is no extra value in using them both ... apart from pure insult, which appears to be Dr. Guy's forte.

Consequently, I stand by my previous assessment.
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dabe
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Reply #12 January 18, 2005 7:03:10 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Dr guy, I'm not deleting your first post. You gave some interesting (for lack of a better word) advice. But remember, I did warn you.........
If you post something off the wall, so to speak, and I consider it fodder for ridicule, it will stay. Furry did a pretty good job of that. So, it stays.

I'm having fun................
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Reply #13 January 18, 2005 7:55:03 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
poor old frothing-at-the-mouth right-wing paranoiac Dr. Guy


if you think this man is right wing, then you have alot to learn about politics.
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Reply #14 January 18, 2005 7:55:31 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Doc;

I felt a need to reach out and help you in your quest to find the perfect insulting alliteration. (Must have something to do with my bleeding heart.)

Here is a selection of words beginning with the letter L that make more sense (I've bolded the definitions I think pertain most. ):

Liliputian --n. 1. An inhabitant of Lilliput 2. A very small person, especially, a self-important one. (actually, this may pertain mostly to the right, but feel free to use it on the left. )

Light-headed --adj. 1. Silly; frivolous. 2. Dizzy; delirious

Lame duck Colloq. 3. U.S. A member of a legislature, especially of Congress, whose term continues some time after his defeat for reelection. (hmmm, sound familiar? )

Lickspittle n. A servile flatterer. (an old and very rarely used chestnut, but funny. )

And a few quick ones; no definition required:

Leech(ing), lewd, licentious, libelous, loose, loutish, loogie(slang), lurid, Lydian, limp, lunk-headed.

Hope this helps you create better alliterations.

Insults don't have to be nonsensical to be good.


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kingbee
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Reply #15 January 18, 2005 8:25:46 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

all this alliterative vituperation puts me in mind of our last crooked republican vp and his nattering nabobs of negativism

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Dr Guy
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Reply #16 January 18, 2005 1:45:02 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Hope this helps you create better alliterations.

Insults don't have to be nonsensical to be good

While your list is good, I will stick with mine for now.  It captures the spirit of the well, loony loopy luddite left!  Present company excepted of course!

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Reply #17 January 18, 2005 1:49:33 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Yeah, I found the inclusion of luddite to be odd as well. There are some notable luddites among the left, but you'll find them among the right as well.
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Dr Guy
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Reply #18 January 18, 2005 2:23:04 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Yeah, I found the inclusion of luddite to be odd as well. There are some notable luddites among the left, but you'll find them among the right as well.


Check out my article on the Tsunammi.  Quoting a Mr. Ferrando.  I will not argue that there are some on the right, but it is too easy to find them on the left.


Oh, and Furry, you dont read much do you.  But you sure can fling about half truths and mis-statements like A John Kerry.  If you want to go off on a loony rant, go for it!  It is your reputation after all, or lack there of.

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Reply #19 January 18, 2005 4:41:28 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
'Oh, and Furry, you dont read much do you.'
So, from his assumption that there is one specific book by Al Gore that I haven't read, Dr. Guy infers that I 'don't read much'? (And it was an assumption only - I never said that I hadn't read the book, only that Dr. Guy imploring the left to refer to it in order to find some justification for the manner in which he insults them is laughable.) I guess that can only mean that Dr. Guy has read EVERYTHING. It's nice to see him maintaining the same levels of cogency and rationale employed in many of his previous arguments, isn't it?

'if you think this man is right wing, then you have alot to learn about politics.'
Er, not just me, Manopeace - Dr. Guy himself wears the label proudly. The fact that he spends so much of his time on this site bad-mouthing anyone he regards as vaguely to the left might have given you a wee hint too.

'Furry did a pretty good job of that.'
Why, thanks dabe! One does one's best, you know ...
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Dr Guy
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Reply #20 January 18, 2005 4:59:02 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

 

So, from his assumption that there is one specific book by Al Gore that I haven't read, Dr. Guy infers that I 'don't read much'? (And it was an assumption only


No, you dont read much.  You refuse to read the materials provided to you to back up my claims, and you mis-charactertize my postings, which means you read a couple and ASSUMED.  You apparently did not go back and read any of my blogs, or even more of my responses.


It was not an assumption, it was an observation based upon your ignorant rantings and refusal to read material offered.


Er, not just me, Manopeace - Dr. Guy himself wears the label proudly. The fact that he spends so much of his time on this site bad-mouthing anyone he regards as vaguely to the left might have given you a wee hint too.


The pot calling the kettle black.  I guess there is no more point in responding to your ignorant posts, as you refuse to educate yourself and have your own prejudice and bigotry.  A shame really.  It is your loss.

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Reply #21 January 18, 2005 5:08:04 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Dr., if anything, among the people that Furry respects, Furry's arguement with you only boosts the reputation.  I knew nothing about furry before, but now I can of like him/her.


Cheers

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dabe
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Reply #22 January 18, 2005 5:31:37 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
'You refuse to read the materials provided to you to back up my claims'
Dr. Guy: No, I don't! However, it's YOUR job to substantiate your 'claims'. It's not up to me, Al Gore or anybody else.

jeblackstar and dabe: Thank you for your support. As certain contributors know (and I am not blameless here, I admit), it's only too easy to be insulting. However, it can take rather more courage to be kind and constructive. Gideon (see his succinct contribution above) is a fine example of a blogger who consistently refuses to allow himself to be dragged down into name-calling. I don't always agree with his opinions, but I applaud the way he presents them. Something for me to aim for, I think.
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dabe
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Reply #23 January 18, 2005 7:25:03 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
At risk of straying a little from the topic of this thread (apologies, dabe), but in the interests of light relief, Dr. Guy's repeated referral to Al Gore's book puts me in mind of one of my favourite jokes ...

One hot summer morning, a tramp is shuffling slowly down a London street. As he passes a swank new building of steel and glass, a well-rounded and expensively tailored businessman comes out through the revolving door and begins to descend the steps towards the Rolls Royce parked in the forecourt.

‘Excuse me, guv’ner,’ says the tramp, ‘Can you spare two bob for a cup of tea?’

The businessman strikes a thespian pose and proclaims, ‘”Neither a borrower, nor a lender be.” – William Shakespeare. You would do well to attend to that advice, my good man.’ And, with a dramatic flourish of his hand, he climbs into the car and purrs away.

Later that same day, the tramp is walking down another road elsewhere in the city when he sees the same Rolls Royce, parked awkwardly at the side of the road, and with a very obvious flat tyre. And there too is the businessman, struggling with the jack in the heat of the midday sun – his smooth round face red and sweat-stained, his Savile Row suit covered in engine oil.

Seeing the tramp approach, the businessman turns and beckons urgently, exclaiming, ‘I say! My man! Come and give me a hand to change this tyre.’

The tramp draws himself up to his full height and replies, ‘”F*ck off.” – D. H. Lawrence.’
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dabe
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Reply #24 January 18, 2005 8:44:04 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Furry, that's a great joke!! And, you should know, I have no problem with straying from topics. I think the tangents are usually more interesting, anyway. One could never accuse me of standing on ceremony, that's for sure.

Thanks mucho for your input into this thread.
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dabe
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Reply #25 January 19, 2005 6:59:53 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
My pleasure, dabe. Thanks for sparking a lively debate, and more power to your typing finger!
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