Search
Forum Home | Login
terpfan1980
terpfan1980
Join Date 08/2004
+13

If we weren't so stingy, we'd be broke. Disaster relief

January 4, 2005 1:01:28 PM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
From info linked here: Krauthammer: U.S. Gives 60 Percent of Global Food Aid apparently originated here: Krauthammer: U.S. Gives 60 Percent of Global Food Aid

Some choice notes:

Columnist Charles Krauthammer blasted U.N. officials and other America-bashers Sunday morning for trying to paint the U.S.'s foreign aid contribution as "stingy" in the wake of the Asia tsunami disaster - especially since the facts prove exactly the opposite.
"We are six percent, or less, of the world's population," Krauthammer told his fellow "Fox News Sunday" panelists. "We give almost half [of the global foreign aid]. ... We give 60 percent of all the food aid on the planet."
...
The conservative columnist was responding to "FNS" panelist Ceci Connolly, who suggested that U.S. aid contributions were stingy in comparison to the nearly $1 billion of federal relief that poured into the state of Florida during last year's hurricane epidemic, which killed a mere 100 Americans.
Using Connolly's math, a contribution proportionate to the 120,000 deaths reported so far in the tsunami crisis would compel the U.S. to donate $1.2 trillion in disaster relief to the affected countries.


While I'm all for doing the right thing, and contributing what we can afford and helping our fellow man, that number is just staggering.

By that math, we should be giving these countries decades worth of their own GDP in order to help recover from this natural disaster?

I wish everyone on earth a better life, I really do, but many of the people affected by this tragedy lived lives of squalor. As Christian Childrens Fund, UNICEF and others tell us, just pennies a day would provide the basics for many of these people, yet, using the math that produced the numbers shown, we'd be giving 120,000 - 200,000 victims (or their governments) $1.2 - $2 trillion?!

How much is that per individual?!?! If I did the math right, $10,000 per person?!? For someone whose life savings up to that point had been (assuming here) something in the neighborhood of $100 - $1000?!?

That would just be in direct aid no less. Never mind the continued contributions that are flowing, and would continue to flow.

The numbers just boggle my mind.

As a comparison, by the way, consider the numbers found in this article: What price sacrifice? Increase in 'death gratuity' considered, that discusses the current death gratuity that is paid to surviving family members of U.S. soldiers that die in service. Currently that payment is $12,000 -- an amount that is pitifully low, but is the current amount paid for someone that has given their live in service to their country. Are we to truly believe that we, the U.S. citizens, should be paying just as much for the lives of villagers in third world nations as we do our own service people?!

I guess if we're really part of the great big global community, we must have to do such things so we can please those that would just on hating us with their next breath.
politics
Locked Post
Search this post
Advanced Search
Subscription Options
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
terpfan1980
Solitair
Join Date 01/2002
0
Reply #1 January 5, 2005 7:36:59 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Remember that the aid is actually primarily towards those still alive and affected by the tradegy not to the dead. So that's 2-3 million people who are homeless.

As for why the US has now increased it's intial pledge to levels similar to other countries and is so active in making sure that it does not appear in any way to be stingy (and i would not suggest it was), I believe that Powell said it best,

Muslims had "an opportunity to see American generosity, American values in action", and US relief work should also "dry up pools of dissatisfaction which might give rise to terrorist activity".

It's in America's best interests both to be generous and to be seen as being generous.

Paul.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
terpfan1980
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
+1
Reply #2 January 5, 2005 1:13:53 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #1 By: Solitair - 1/5/2005 7:36:59 AM
Remember that the aid is actually primarily towards those still alive and affected by the tradegy not to the dead. So that's 2-3 million people who are homeless.

As for why the US has now increased it's intial pledge to levels similar to other countri


Can you back this up with facts? I know for a fact that we're giving double what Norway is.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
terpfan1980
Solitair
Join Date 01/2002
0
Reply #3 January 6, 2005 4:58:40 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I can, but I won't as critising the US response was not the purpose of my response. If you really want to bean count and see who contributes more you can, but it will be months before the actual costs come out. The UK governmnet for example has said that only £7M ($14M) of it's initial £50M ($100M) pledge has actually been spent so far, but it expects the final cost to the UK government over the next year to be 100's of million UK pounds in aid. Who gives how much is irrelevant. It's the perception of helping that counts here.

The points I was making were that the calculating the aid on the number killed is wrong, and the US support for this disaster will save the US far more money in the long term through reduced future anti terrorism actions.

Paul.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
terpfan1980
terpfan1980
Join Date 08/2004
+13
Reply #4 January 6, 2005 11:45:39 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
and the US support for this disaster will save the US far more money in the long term through reduced future anti terrorism actions.


I'll dispute that here and now. There's absolutely no guarantee that any of the money they U.S. spends in Tsunami relief will ever result in any reduced terrorism.

These very same people that are now looking for a handout and help will just as quickly turn back around and bite the hands that feed them once they are back on their feet.

Spending money to try to "bribe" these people in being friends of the U.S. is a doomed effort, and is stupid to even start.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
terpfan1980
terpfan1980
Join Date 08/2004
+13
Reply #5 January 6, 2005 12:48:42 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
It is the stated belief of the US government though, as shown by Powell making it.


No, it's the stated belief of Powell. Not of the U.S. government.

Individuals that actually put thought into this realize quickly that Powell is being overly optimistic about this issue, and it's likely to have any real impact.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
terpfan1980
Solitair
Join Date 01/2002
0
Reply #6 January 6, 2005 1:24:15 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
terpfan,
you can indeed dispute this statement. It is the stated belief of the US government though, as shown by Powell making it. I personally believe that people are far less likely to support anti US terrorism if they recall friends and family who are only alive due to US assistance. The important thing is for it to be aid to help with a problem, and not a long term support.

Paul
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
terpfan1980
sandy2
Join Date 08/2004
0
Reply #7 January 7, 2005 9:21:17 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
How much is that per individual?!?! If I did the math right, $10,000 per person?!? For someone whose life savings up to that point had been (assuming here) something in the neighborhood of $100 - $1000?!?


Well, if you were basing your "math" on the number of people who perished, then it was actually inaccurate. Based on the 100,000 people who died, 1 trillion dollars would equal $10,000,000 per person. Also, please realize that the money poured into Florida was for things such as reconstruction as well, and also understand that $5 billion (the amount currently pledged) is plenty, though the real problems here are a) the money has only been pledged so far not actually given and other world situations don't receive the money needed while ones such as this receive more than the amount asked for. Hopefully some of the $5 billion (which equates to $1000 per each of the 5 million affected according to UN, and this is too much considering they make $2 there) will be spent on a tsunami early warning system to be implemented in the Indian Ocean.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
terpfan1980
sandy2
Join Date 08/2004
0
Reply #8 January 7, 2005 9:23:40 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
No, it's the stated belief of Powell. Not of the U.S. government.

Individuals that actually put thought into this realize quickly that Powell is being overly optimistic about this issue, and it's likely to have any real impact.


The United States is not bribing anyone, we are merley showing that we are a kind hearted nation, and we love all people. Terrorists become terrorists because they truly feel we are evil. If we show them through generous actions (not Iraq War type actions), they will see us for what we really are.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
terpfan1980
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
+1
Reply #9 January 8, 2005 12:51:07 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #8 By: sandy2 - 1/7/2005 9:23:40 PM Terrorists become terrorists because they truly feel we are evil. If we show them through generous actions (not Iraq War type actions), they will see us for what we really are.


One can only hope. But try not to hold your breath because I don't think it'llmean anything on way or the other.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
terpfan1980
SSG Geezer
Join Date 08/2004
+1
Reply #10 January 8, 2005 1:31:45 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Check your math Sandy, a trillion dollars is only a thousand million not a million million. From my quick calculations it appears that Terpfan's $ figures are correct
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
terpfan1980
sandy2
Join Date 08/2004
0
Reply #11 January 8, 2005 2:58:42 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Actually, a trillion dollars is a million million. A thousand million is a billion. Think about it. 100 Million, times 10 = 1 billion, and thats 1000 million.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
terpfan1980
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
+1
Reply #12 January 8, 2005 6:56:04 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #10 By: SSG Geezer - 1/8/2005 1:31:45 AM
Check your math Sandy, a trillion dollars is only a thousand million not a million million. From my quick calculations it appears that Terpfan's $ figures are correct


Sarge, I hate to say this but..... Sandy2 is 100% correct on this one. Your math is the one that's faulty. So bearing that in mind that means that terpfan's calculations are off.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
View all recent posts
Mark all posts as read Delete cookies created by the forum Return to Top
Stardock Forums v        Server Load Time:   Page Render Time:
Facebook Twitter YouTube Google+