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ls612
ls612
Join Date 01/2010
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Late Game Lag

May 19, 2013 11:21:00 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I've played a lot with Rebellion 1.1 and while I took a break for a while I just came back and am excited to see the 1.5 patch being actively developed. I just have one concern, and that is the speed of the game in the later stages, especially on the new maps that were included in 1.1

I have heard before that Rebellion is entirely CPU-limited in terms of performance. I have an i7-3610, which while it isn't the best proc out there it is certainly up there. With that, no matter what graphics settings I use the game will inevitably slow down to about 1/2 or 1/3rd speed in the late game with 10 players, making it not fun to play after that. I just wanted to ask the devs if they are looking at any performance optimizations for the 1.5 patch or if this is as good as it is going to get.

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ls612
Lavo_2
Join Date 05/2010
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Reply #1 May 19, 2013 6:08:11 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

This is as good as it will get, as Sins is a 32-bit application.

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ls612
GoaFan77
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #2 May 19, 2013 6:19:16 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

There may be some optimizations, but as Lavo mentioned the core issue of Sins not using all of your processor is a hard technical limitation. That said, most graphics options do not really affect the CPU. The setting changes you want to make are things like hiding trade ship icons, stacking units in the Empire tree or just hiding as much stuff on the Empire tree as possible. It's the number of different stuff the game has to render and keep track of that slows the CPU, not graphics computations, that should be done by your GPU.

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ls612
ls612
Join Date 01/2010
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Reply #3 May 19, 2013 6:23:56 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,
reply 2

There may be some optimizations, but as Lavo mentioned the core issue of Sins not using all of your processor is a hard technical limitation. That said, most graphics options do not really affect the CPU. The setting changes you want to make are things like hiding trade ship icons, stacking units in the Empire tree or just hiding as much stuff on the Empire tree as possible. It's the number of different stuff the game has to render and keep track of that slows the CPU, not graphics computations, that should be done by your GPU.

Yeah, I'm well aware that sins isn't multi-threaded and so will only use one of my 8 cores. I was mainly hoping that since the devs added Vast random maps that they should support them running reasonably well on modern hardware.

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ls612
GoaFan77
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Reply #4 May 19, 2013 6:42:31 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting ls612,
reply 3


Yeah, I'm well aware that sins isn't multi-threaded and so will only use one of my 8 cores. I was mainly hoping that since the devs added Vast random maps that they should support them running reasonably well on modern hardware.

The new maps were added primarily for multiplayer, where the games do not last more than a few hours. If you're playing them for much longer then I'm not surprised it seems bad.

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BellGoRiiing
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #5 May 19, 2013 7:16:37 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Now that think about it, I remember in Diplomacy they had an update it that reduced lag greatly. (it was still there, though)

Shouldn't it be possible to deal with it again in Rebellion? Since the lag seems to be back to...erm, "normal". lol

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ls612
ls612
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Reply #6 May 19, 2013 9:20:49 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting BellGoRiiing,
reply 5

Now that think about it, I remember in Diplomacy they had an update it that reduced lag greatly. (it was still there, though)

Shouldn't it be possible to deal with it again in Rebellion? Since the lag seems to be back to...erm, "normal". lol

The big lag reducer I remember as being Rebellion 0.90 (Beta 3), which literally doubled the speed of late games on my old PC.

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Ryat
Join Date 06/2006
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Reply #7 May 19, 2013 9:32:52 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

The devs have implemented some more performance optimizers for 1.5. And I am sure as they find more they would patch it in.

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ls612
Pupetier
Join Date 10/2009
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Reply #8 May 19, 2013 9:35:46 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

You can try to OC your processor as GHz on single core are best remedy for late game lag.

As for devs optimizing it Yes they did a good job with last patch for diplo but then they added more content with Rebelion and improved graphic so that set them back to same square before that update

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ls612
P3CTankman
Join Date 07/2012
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Reply #9 May 20, 2013 3:36:59 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

The i7 already overclocks itself, not sure how much more OCing it could take before melting.

But this is a problem, not as much for me as it is more of a RAM issue...

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ls612
Pupetier
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Reply #10 May 20, 2013 10:57:03 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I have I7 with base of 2.7GHz OC to 4 GHz. I do have custom water cooling loop on it. With 100% load (prime torture test) temp reaching about 61 degrees Celsius.

This OC enable me to play smooth games until about 1h into the game on huge random maps with 1 player and 9 vicious all settings faster. Keep in mind vicious max their fleet (2000 fleet supply) 20 min into the game. Not sure what actual game time is because I change game speed as needed....

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RiddleKing
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #11 May 20, 2013 11:23:44 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Sins needs a 64 bit executable fast.. My retina 15 can handle most of the issues but when I play on ICO I run into a situation where the server says I'm "lagging" but it stops doing that when I lower my graphics settings.  

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ls612
ls612
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Reply #12 May 21, 2013 5:20:41 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Greg30007,
reply 10

I have I7 with base of 2.7GHz OC to 4 GHz. I do have custom water cooling loop on it. With 100% load (prime torture test) temp reaching about 61 degrees Celsius.

This OC enable me to play smooth games until about 1h into the game on huge random maps with 1 player and 9 vicious all settings faster. Keep in mind vicious max their fleet (2000 fleet supply) 20 min into the game. Not sure what actual game time is because I change game speed as needed....

I do no overclocking (so I'm getting 3.1 Ghz on one core) and it goes fine for me until 2 or 3 hrs, about when everyone gets max fleets. I don't see memory issues much, even with 1.5 though. I'm just hoping the devs will comment on this one way or another since they are working again on Rebellion.

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Major Stress
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #13 May 21, 2013 6:20:25 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I think this is as good as it is gonna get short of re-writing Sins in 64 bit. Which the dev's said repeatedly will not happen. Since Ironclad is busy with Sins of a Dark Age. Stardock seems to be doing all it can do to help the late game lag issue, and support the game. Only suggestion i can say other than what was already said is to play on smaller maps.

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ls612
GoaFan77
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #14 May 21, 2013 6:22:03 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Major Stress,
reply 13

I think this is as good as it is gonna get short of re-writing Sins in 64 bit. Which the dev's said repeatedly will not happen. Stardock seems to be doing all it can do to help the late game lag issue. Only suggestion i can say other than what was already said is to play smaller maps.

Or shorter games... or with smaller fleets... or with fewer strikecraft.

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Major Stress
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Reply #15 May 21, 2013 6:24:14 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Basically the more objects on the map at any given time (planets, ships, structures, strike craft, trade ships,) equals more lag. So you have to find ways to limit the amount of objects.

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Cykur
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #16 May 21, 2013 7:41:02 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah, I agree that the amount of ships is a big part of it.  While not having enough video / cpu power to render is one problem, games lag with big fleets even if you are panned way out.  Adding corvettes to the game did not help lag.  One game I played someone made like 800 corvettes and there was a 2 second lag every time he gave his fleet a move order. 

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ZombiesRus5
Join Date 02/2009
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Reply #17 May 21, 2013 8:57:53 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Cykur,
reply 16

Yeah, I agree that the amount of ships is a big part of it.  While not having enough video / cpu power to render is one problem, games lag with big fleets even if you are panned way out.  Adding corvettes to the game did not help lag.  One game I played someone made like 800 corvettes and there was a 2 second lag every time he gave his fleet a move order. 

Well, you can't build 800 corvettes with normal fleet sizes... so:

Was it the Corvettes or his shitty comp or someone elses shitting comp?

 

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GoaFan77
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Reply #18 May 21, 2013 11:59:44 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting ZombiesRus5,
reply 17
Well, you can't build 800 corvettes with normal fleet sizes... so:

Remember they used to be as low as 1 fleet supply. 

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XATHOS
Join Date 02/2002
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Reply #19 May 22, 2013 12:18:33 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting ,
quoting post

I've played a lot with Rebellion 1.1 and while I took a break for a while I just came back and am excited to see the 1.5 patch being actively developed. I just have one concern, and that is the speed of the game in the later stages, especially on the new maps that were included in 1.1

I have heard before that Rebellion is entirely CPU-limited in terms of performance. I have an i7-3610, which while it isn't the best proc out there it is certainly up there. With that, no matter what graphics settings I use the game will inevitably slow down to about 1/2 or 1/3rd speed in the late game with 10 players, making it not fun to play after that. I just wanted to ask the devs if they are looking at any performance optimizations for the 1.5 patch or if this is as good as it is going to get.


Scale the map size by the number of players, and don't be playing on huge 100+ asset maps.  Ideal for 6 players is about 50 assets.

The same problem exists in SupCom.  You work your way around it, and don't let the ambition of the game engine get away from you.

I also have rescaled strikecraft, trade/refinary ships, and fleet size/costs in my mods.  That's another big part.

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Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #20 May 22, 2013 12:21:19 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I removed carriers from my personal mod....how happy my life has become....how unlaggish my Sins games have been....

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Ryat
Join Date 06/2006
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Reply #21 May 22, 2013 12:28:49 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,
reply 20

I removed carriers from my personal mod....how happy my life has become....how unlaggish my Sins games have been....

You have been listening to Carbon too much.

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Seleuceia
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Reply #22 May 22, 2013 12:35:03 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

All capital ships, SBs, titans, and hangars still have SC....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Albeit, not very many...

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ls612
GoaFan77
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Reply #23 May 22, 2013 12:16:04 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,
reply 20

I removed carriers from my personal mod....how happy my life has become....how unlaggish my Sins games have been....

Quoting Ryat,
reply 21


Quoting Seleuceia, reply 20
I removed carriers from my personal mod....how happy my life has become....how unlaggish my Sins games have been....

You have been listening to Carbon too much.

I think Infinite Space has done that as well. I just increased the fleet supply use of carrier cruisers and buffed the stats of strikecraft to compensate.

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SithLordAJ
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #24 May 24, 2013 9:29:42 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Major Stress,
reply 13
Since Ironclad is busy with Sins of a Dark Age.

We can only hope Sins of a Dark Age is 64-bit and the engine easily reusable.

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P3CTankman
Join Date 07/2012
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Reply #25 May 24, 2013 11:24:39 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting SithLordAJ,
reply 24


Quoting Major Stress, reply 13Since Ironclad is busy with Sins of a Dark Age.

We can only hope Sins of a Dark Age is 64-bit and the engine easily reusable.

Is that a mod?

Sorry it's just I never heard of it.

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