Monsters Ignoring AI players (again) » Forum Post by CMarvel

I have noticed this as well.

In addition in the long run it penalizes the AI too as their sovs and champs are not getting this XP and items, letting the player instead collect all the goodies and steamroll them with a mega experienced hero and stack/items

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Its also kind of silly that that giant dragon and spiders sit peacefully right next to the enemy cities and as soon as you capture it everything from that area instantly dives the city and tries to destroy it.

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Quoting ,

quoting post

The monsters that are either spawned from special events or from lairs sitting around too long are completely ignoring AI forces. I wanted an AI pioneer walk 5 turns right next to a skeleton group that had spawned from the random and was not touched. Even when it turned into a outpost, the skeletons ignored it, unlike my poor arcane monoliths which are apparently made of skeleton food.

This leads to another problem which I think is an underlying one with the FE as well. The AI is not penalized for playing irresponsibly. The settle right next to deadly groups which then proceed to wander across the AI territory, that is until they find the player territory and then begin to attack and destroy everything in sight.

Brad had said earlier that monsters attacking AI and player was dependent on DIFFICULTY and at much higher levels of it. So if you're playing around normal or challenging you're not going to see this much if at all.

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Quoting joeherbert48,

reply 3

quoting postThe monsters that are either spawned from special events or from lairs sitting around too long are completely ignoring AI forces. I wanted an AI pioneer walk 5 turns right next to a skeleton group that had spawned from the random and was not touched. Even when it turned into a outpost, the skeletons ignored it, unlike my poor arcane monoliths which are apparently made of skeleton food.

This leads to another problem which I think is an underlying one with the FE as well. The AI is not penalized for playing irresponsibly. The settle right next to deadly groups which then proceed to wander across the AI territory, that is until they find the player territory and then begin to attack and destroy everything in sight.

Brad had said earlier that monsters attacking AI and player was dependent on DIFFICULTY and at much higher levels of it. So if you're playing around normal or challenging you're not going to see this much if at all.

So wait, I am not sure I understand. At lower difficulty levels, monsters prioritize player structures and units over AI? Isn't that counter-intuitive? Whatever activates a mob should be the default target for the mob.

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lol

I watched a set of epic monsters roflstomp a whole AI settlement. Was hilarious!

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This breaks immersion. Having AI units and cities being ignored by strong monster groups. Game difficulty shouldn't be linked to this.

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I'm confused. In all my games of FE, I have yet to have a monster successfully attack and raze one of my cities. So, I assume you are all talking about me, but my name isn't AI. So what gives?

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Quoting CMarvel,

reply 4

Brad had said earlier that monsters attacking AI and player was dependent on DIFFICULTY and at much higher levels of it. So if you're playing around normal or challenging you're not going to see this much if at all.

I don't believe this at all. I am (was) playing a game on challenging now. I watched several times where the AI was given a free pass and completely ignored. Then a current event activated and new monsters spawned around the world. The only player that had to deal with them was me. I was able to watch neigboring AI players when this happened and they have absolutely NO CONCERN for them. I think this is the part of the game that disgust me the most. If the AI has to cheat that bad to play then I say screw the single player mode and just make this game multi-player. Why would anyone bang thier heads against the wall coding AI players to perform so contrary to human players if this is the best to be expected. If the AI does not play by the same rules as a human player then what is the thrill of victory. Is just pathetic overall if it has to be this way.

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Quoting Lord Micheal,

reply 8

Quoting CMarvel, reply 4
Brad had said earlier that monsters attacking AI and player was dependent on DIFFICULTY and at much higher levels of it. So if you're playing around normal or challenging you're not going to see this much if at all.

I don't believe this at all. I am (was) playing a game on challenging now. I watched several times where the AI was given a free pass and completely ignored. Then a current event activated and new monsters spawned around the world. The only player that had to deal with them was me. I was able to watch neigboring AI players when this happened and they have absolutely NO CONCERN for them. I think this is the part of the game that disgust me the most. If the AI has to cheat that bad to play then I say screw the single player mode and just make this game multi-player.

What difficulty level were you playing on? Above challenging it's basically you vs. the the world & the AIs. On challenging, the monsters definitely attack AI units (and destroy their improvements). Though so far, I haven't seen any cities (mine or the AIs) destroyed by monsters at all.

If the AI does not play by the same rules as a human player then what is the thrill of victory. Is just pathetic overall if it has to be this way.

Speaking for myself here, but the thrill of victory is overcoming the challenge the game presents. I am finding the game on challenging to be pretty good so far, but there are all these new mechanics to learn.

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I'd rather monsters did not fight the a.i. I need to kill as many monsters as possible myself to level my units.

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Also keep in mind one faction has that trait that inhibits monster attacks.

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It could happen that you send a unit through the "save land" of an ally and that unit gets killed by his pet...a little dragon...who knows that your units taste sweeter.

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Quoting Lord Micheal,

reply 8

Quoting CMarvel,
reply 4
Brad had said earlier that monsters attacking AI and player was dependent on DIFFICULTY and at much higher levels of it. So if you're playing around normal or challenging you're not going to see this much if at all.

I don't believe this at all. I am (was) playing a game on challenging now. I watched several times where the AI was given a free pass and completely ignored. Then a current event activated and new monsters spawned around the world. The only player that had to deal with them was me. I was able to watch neigboring AI players when this happened and they have absolutely NO CONCERN for them. I think this is the part of the game that disgust me the most. If the AI has to cheat that bad to play then I say screw the single player mode and just make this game multi-player. Why would anyone bang thier heads against the wall coding AI players to perform so contrary to human players if this is the best to be expected. If the AI does not play by the same rules as a human player then what is the thrill of victory. Is just pathetic overall if it has to be this way.

It's called DIFFICULTY for a reason. ;_) If you can't handle it we don't care if you don't play no more. :_)

What difficulty level were you playing on? Above challenging it's basically you vs. the the world & the AIs. On challenging, the monsters definitely attack AI units (and destroy their improvements). Though so far, I haven't seen any cities (mine or the AIs) destroyed by monsters at all.

Yes, they do but at a very MINIMAL level, they still favor the AI over the human player much more in not attacking them.

I do agree with you though it's all about CHALLENGE and NOT about BALANCE of things. The player gets to setup everything so right off the bat the game setup favors the PLAYER over the AI. So, the AI should get it's own built in advantages vs the player. The Wilds and the roaming monsters is part of the AI's advantage.

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The problem is the player should never be punished for AI irresponsibility in settling or activating monsters. Whatever activates a mob should be the primary, or at least the most preferred, target. Recently, playing an early game as the Yrthil. I was happily settling and making nice with my Magar neighbors, when they settled an area right next to a Juggernaut. The Juggernaut activates, walks AROUND the city that activated, past a Magar pioneer, and right for my Sov, who was unfortunately unable to get far enough away not to get smashed into bloody pulp. Now, perhaps some of us masochists consider this fun or exciting, but if you ever want anyone else to play and not shut off the game in frustration, stuff like this shouldn't happen.

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I admit I get frustrated when the monsters don't attack the AI as quickly as I would like (or chase me 3 tiles away when they're standing right next to an AI unit), but I have seen them destroy enough AI units and cities to say that they aren't totally ignoring the AI.

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Playing on normal/normal Magnar loots all the nests in the nature epic area without touching the monsters that are all wandering around and then proceeds to settle it without clearing it, all i can do is just watch because if i get near it mr Morian of the summer shows up with his army to greet the new neighbors. Went to war with Magnar and grabbed those cities only to have them destroyed a couple of turns later, felt a bit better after i crushed magnar and then made him my pet.

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Quoting emmagine,

reply 11

Also keep in mind one faction has that trait that inhibits monster attacks.

Prevents attacks on units, not cities.

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AI needs to avoid monsters the same as a player until they are able to defend against or defeat them. The monsters should attack the AI just like it would attack a player. Anything else is pretty dumb imho.

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Quoting greywolf00,

reply 17

Prevents attacks on units, not cities.

When was the last time you saw an AI city with no units in it?

Quoting Rhaegor,

reply 18

AI needs to avoid monsters the same as a player until they are able to defend against or defeat them. The monsters should attack the AI just like it would attack a player. Anything else is pretty dumb imho.

Agreed, unless you are on Hard or higher difficulties, the AI shouldn't get preferential treatment. The story about Magnar collecting loot and never getting attacked in a wildlands suggests that something is off in the game currently.

We hashed through this quite a bit with FE, so I would be surprised by a regression in AI/Monster behavior. Might just be Frogboy trying to ensure the AI is competitive since there's probably very little LH-specific AI code in 0.5.

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Playing with settings:

-World difficulty: Challenging

- Monster frequency: Dense

The AI definitely gets attacked by monsters. In fact, it gets attacked a lot. Playing on large map with 8 AI factions + my own custom. 2 factions lost their capitols to monsters (they got razed). I think it was Magnar and Yithril. Also seen several cities 'disappear' in the distance, probably also by monsters. AI was very slow to expand and when my scouts explored around their borders I saw lots of monsters and monster lairs around which explained their slow expansion. Lots of outposts got razed too. I in fact saw 2 cities being razed by monster groups early in game since they were close to my borders.

Monsters indeed attack AI players, but it may be connected to the difficulty. Challenging definitely has it.

I's suggest separating world difficulty and monster aggressiveness in 2 different options so people can have easier or more difficult monsters that behave according to everyone's taste.

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Quoting Daynarr,

reply 20

Playing with settings:

-World difficulty: Challenging

- Monster frequency: Dense

The AI definitely gets attacked by monsters. In fact, it gets attacked a lot. Playing on large map with 8 AI factions + my own custom. 2 factions lost their capitols to monsters (they got razed). I think it was Magnar and Yithril. Also seen several cities 'disappear' in the distance, probably also by monsters. AI was very slow to expand and when my scouts explored around their borders I saw lots of monsters and monster lairs around which explained their slow expansion. Lots of outposts got razed too. I in fact saw 2 cities being razed by monster groups early in game since they were close to my borders.

Monsters indeed attack AI players, but it may be connected to the difficulty. Challenging definitely has it.

I's suggest separating world difficulty and monster aggressiveness in 2 different options so people can have easier or more difficult monsters that behave according to everyone's taste.

This is strange, since I play on challenging and still have monsters ignoring the AI and preferring my armies as tasty snacks over outposts, cities, and AI pioneers.

EDIT - Also, another issue which I think is quite large is that I am OFTEN seeing AI and monster forces stacked on each other like allied armies (2 stacks occupying the same tile, the little 2 above the stack. How, and more importantly why, is this happening?

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Since the AI and monsters are buddies, they should be able to sit together once in a while and have some tea...

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Quoting CMarvel,

reply 14

The problem is the player should never be punished for AI irresponsibility in settling or activating monsters.

I think this is where a lot of the AI and Monster Behavior complaints come from. From most of the games I've played, it seems the AI plops down outposts and settlements with little regard for the lairs that it might disturb and whether they can handle the threats that will then be roaming around. If playing on a higher world difficulty, this really cripples the AI quite a bit.

Because of the random nature of the rampaging monsters, it not only makes life harder for that AI player, but any of its neighbors as well. Some AI's just like to watch the world burn I guess.

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Quoting sweatyboatman,

reply 19

Quoting greywolf00, reply 17
Prevents attacks on units, not cities.

When was the last time you saw an AI city with no units in it?

Does simply stationing a unit in the city proc the protection of the trait? Would explain why I've taken that trait before and had cities attacked (no garrison). I figured the skill only applied to units on the map and didn't extended to cities, regardless of a garrison.

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fwiw, i think all monsters should attack any target of opportunity. Whatever process they may use in determining a target, the presence of a player-controller (or lack thereof) should not influence their decisions in anyway

if the AI isn't able to evaluate local threats, and either eliminate them or keep a force ready to defend from them, i think that's another matter which needs work.

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