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dharmagrl

Join Date 02/2004

I think my son has ADD and I am heartbroken.

I'm taking my youngest in to get tested for ADD.

Jake's had issues with listening and following directions for ages. He rarely finishes anything he starts, he forgets things constantly, his room and his desk at school are disaster areas, he's disruptive.....sometimes when I talk to him I can almost see the words bouncing right off him. He doesn't listen, he doesn't absorb.

We had parent/teacher conferences last week, and his teacher brought up his lack of self-discipline and problems paying attention. She said that she sees the same thing at school that I do at home, and that she thinks Jake has a lot of potential but she's having a hard time getting through to him and tapping that potential. She showed me some of his work...it was awful. Instead of lining things up neatly on the left hand side of the page, he had written them everywhere. Apparently, it happens frequently. He got C's on his report card......he got an A in math, because he likes that, but everything else was low B, or C grade.

Tonight was a perfect example of how Jake is...he had a spelling list to practice. We sat down, just me and him, away from everyone else, and I called out the words and he spelled them. He got 2 wrong. I had him write down the ones he got wrong, spell them for me without looking at them, then we took a 5 min break and came back to the word list. Again, I called, he wrote....and he got 8 out of the 10 wrong. Words he knew before, had got right the last time around, he got wrong this time. That's par for the course...since the start of the school year, Jake has consistently done this. I thought that perhaps it was the atmosphere, that it wasn't quiet enough or that I was doing it wrong....but no matter what I do, he does the same thing.

So, my boy, my little man, is going off to the doctor next week to see what's up. And I'm heartbroken. It took me 3 shots of cinnamon schnapps to get up the guts to sit down and right this. I love my boy, my baby, and I would do anything for him.....and there's such a stigma attached to having a disorder that I hate to do this to him.....but I don't know what else to do, how else to help him.

He's my son. And I love him.

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I understand exactly what you are going through.
This time last year my oldest son, Joshua, was failing the first grade even though he's incredibly bright. He had all the exact symptoms you've described with your boy Jake (my youngest son is a Jake also). Heather (my wife) and I had him tested with his pediatrician and several psychologists... he is severe ADHD.
The good news is that there is a variety of workable treatments for your son that will HELP him. Medications are varied, and it may take some time to find what works for him if you choose to go that route. Josh takes his meds every morning, and they allow him to function like a normal child through most of the day. Around 6pm or so they start to wear off and he's "all over the place" again, kinda like a train on too many tracks, until he finds that one thing that interests him, then NOTHING else matters.

Medication isnt the only solution. Many children are triggered by citrus fruits, including fresh fruit and concentrated drinks. Talk to Jake's doctor about foods that may effect him, because it's easy enough to remove specific types of items for a week at a time and see how your son reacts mentaly.
Most importantly, stay involved. It's obvious you love your son, let him know he's ok, that everyone has some little thing that makes them different. Love and patience is the thing you can give your son as he deals with the changes that may effect his life.

Im marking this thread as "Watched" so if you have any questions for me or my wife, just drop us a line here. And good luck, you've got our prayers.

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Just please, please don't put him on ritalin. Been that route when I was a "hyperactive" (a rose by any other name.....) kid, and seen it plenty. It doesn't work. In fact, it just made things much, much worse when it wore off.

ADD usually does eventually lessen, (muhahahaha, see? I turned out fine!), and look at it this way, it's most common among the smartest children. (which I'm sure they are, as they're related to you.)

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My sister was in the same boat years ago. Actually, sometimes she'd surpass hyper and move straight to violent temper tantrums. We finally found her trigger - red food dye. Sugar was a contributor, but not as strong. What chilled her out almost instantly was peanut butter - something to do with the protien it gets into your system so rapidly. After switching the whole family over to a completely sugar free diet and eliminating as much artificial coloration as we could, she was pretty much normal again.

Your milage may vary, but I'd give it a shot. Give him a peanut butter sandwich when he's pinging and observe his behavior over the next hour. Make note of how long after he eats and what he eats and what his behavior does. And it might not be sugar, dye, or anything similar to my sister's situation... heck, it could be milk products or who knows what. Just keep one eye on him and one on the clock and see if it's a particular timeframe that he gets into certain states - then figure out why.

Of course, it could be a non-dietary chemistry issue as well, but I think it's worth a shot to consider this as a potential.

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Zombie...thank you so much. I truly, honestly mean that. I thought that because Jake could concentrate on at least one thing, that there was nothing wrong with him, that he just didn't have enough self discipline to stick to a plan. I see now that that might not be the case.

In a way, i'm relieved that i'm not imagining things. that the things I have described here are 'normal' for a kid that has adhd...

jake's having a bad night tonight. i sent him to bed, but i can hear him in his room, talking to himself and laughing hysterically at what he's saying. earlier he was almost uncontrollable, running around the house screaming and throwing things. the other day at the commissary, he was pretending he was a pinball and bouncing himself from side to side of the aisles....all this despite his dad and i telling him off for it and one trip to the bathroom for a but swat (his dad's idea, i learned a long time ago that swatting and spanking just don't work for jake)

again, zombie, i cannot begin to tell you how thankful i am for your help and advice.

SNS: there are plenty of other meds these days.....ritalin isn't the only one.

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Of course, it could be a non-dietary chemistry issue as well, but I think it's worth a shot to consider this as a potential.

i'm considering anything at the moment. i'm thinking about adhd, food allergies...you name it, i've thought of it. i am going to give it a try, though. i'm withdrawing sugar and red/orange/yellow food dyes tomorrow for a week to see how that goes. he's still going to the doctor.....and i'm hoping that we get some answers.

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My oldest has ADHD, dharma. I remember having the same feelings and concerns you expressed here.

As much as there is a stigma attached to the diagnosis, it is so much better that the teachers know why he behaves and reacts in the ways that he does. Instead of being labeled as a "bad kid" and stuck in the corner, the teachers know that he needs help focusing and calming himself or needs help being drawn into the lesson. It has been a great blessing for my son to have been diagnosed. He has been fortunate to have excellent teachers who have been very understanding and willing to do what they need to do to get the best performance and the most learning out of him. We did try him on medication (Concerta) for about a month, but we decided that it made him "not himself," and we decided we would rather him learn to deal with his ADHD without medication.

Sorry to ramble . . . what I really want to say is, I'm sorry about the news, but keep an open mind because it might turn out to be a very beneficial thing for your precious son. Best wishes.

BTW, SPC . . . did you know that they have done studies that show that people with ADHD (or ADD) tend to be very successful in careers that provide a lot of discipline and structure (like the military, nudge, nudge)?

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As much as there is a stigma attached to the diagnosis, it is so much better that the teachers know why he behaves and reacts in the ways that he does. Instead of being labeled as a "bad kid" and stuck in the corner, the teachers know that he needs help focusing and calming himself or needs help being drawn into the lesson.

that's what i'm trying to focus on, tex. that if we can get a firm diagnosis he won't just be the kid who can't pay attention anymore...that we'll be given some tools to help him fulfill his potential and be our jake again.

thanks for the comment, i'm touched and thankful that you know how it is.

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Dharmagrl, it's cool. One of the things you'll find is the massive community that is available to support Jake. Here's a few things you can ask the teachers to do immediatly to help him, regardless of diagnosis:
Have teachers break up his assignments into smaller portions. Many children with attention problems do much better answering only 5 questions at a time instead of 25 or even 50. This works great with tests. Breaking up the work can be as simple as covering up the remaining questions with a sheet of typing paper, having the teacher only reveal 5 new problems at a time.
Have the teacher send things like spelling words home a week ahead of time. Tutoring your child for brief periods of time in the afternoon can do wonders.
I'll post more tomorrow, after I get this work done and this crazy election is over (my wife is yelling at the TV

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I'll post more tomorrow, after I get this work done and this crazy election is over (my wife is yelling at the TV ).

I'm yelling too....and I'll look forward to it! thanks again!

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I'd suggest you don't accept a single doctor's diagnoses - get at least 2 opinions.

He may have learned what he can get away with and like any other kid he pushes the limits to see just how much farther he can go. Or he might be living down to a label that somebody put on him without your knowledge (a stray comment is all it takes). With the way schools have been dumbed down it's also possible that he is just bored to tears and does whatever he can to amuse himself.

I hope for the best, no matter what you'll have your work cut out for you. Good luck.

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I'd suggest you don't accept a single doctor's diagnoses - get at least 2 opinions.

I think that the way it works around here is that he sees our pediatrician, who refers him to a psychologist to give the final 'yay' or 'nay' to the diagnosis.

thanks for the advice!

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K~
Hmmmm...okay...here's my take on meds.

For some kids it works...I mean...you see a 180 degree turn...and you have a whole different kid who's getting those A's, able to sit still, able to participate.

BUT...you know...boys and girls are wired differently, you know? There's different expectations for them. Girls are "supposed" to be quiet, and read, and be "smart"...and boys are "supposed" to be rambunctious, etc. Aside from those expectations and stereotypes...boys and girls really are just naturally different.

I guess I haven't figured out how to address that in my class. My kids are just first graders, learning how to go to school ALL day long, and they just are tired in the afternoon. I have one that I think might be ADD...but...I think alot of them are just chatters.

I'd say that if the dr. suggests meds...try them...you can ALWAYS go off them if they don't work. And be sure to give those meds enough time to work you know? If you don't see somethign in 2 weeks...wait a month or two...those things need time to work.

Sorry...I guess I don't know if that's good advice or not...or even if you're looking for it. But as an educator, that's my take. ESPECIALLY if you see those behaviors at home too.

And really...its about getting your boy the help he needs...you know? Its about him doing and being his best. Don't let that stigma of "meds" get to you know...if its a catalyst for success for your son...its worth it, right?

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I am a single father raising a 9 year old boy that went thru the ADHD hell with his school and his doctor at age 7. Please make sure that you always question everything that you are told by both and never give in to the pressure that you have and will no doubt expreience. His school told me he could not continue to attend unless he was "properly" medicated. I took him to a specialist and within 20 minutes he had a perscription for Metadate CD. I DO NOT want to see anyone else experience what I did in the coming months. Metadate CD is fairly new but the specialist swore by it so I naturally started him on it immediately. Initial side effects were loss of appetite and change in sleeping habits (insomnia to be more specific). Within a few weeks he was very lethargic with very little desire to play as a normal 7 year old boy normally does. His personality was totally changed and his previous love of drawing and painting was gone. He only drew stick figures after a month. The school couldn't be happier. He sat glassy eyed all day in class and never "disturbed" the teacher. Month 2 was when I realized that I had made a HUGE mistake in allowing the system to turn my son into another statistic. He began to show signs of paranoia. He was afraid to say or do anything for fear of failure so he simply shut down. I took him back to his doctor and he decided to start him on another ADHD drug without much more attention then he paid to his first visit. I took him to another doctor and was given almost the same advice. After a few sleepless nights and a lot of research I decided to wean him off the drugs and take the advice of my mother. She told me I went thru a similar phase but back then they called it stubborness and the cure was a very structured daily routine with no "wiggle" room. It required complete dedication from me from the moment I woke till the moment my son closed his eyes at night but it was worth it. There were many tough days and he faught me like a champ but by this late summer something just clicked and now he's a happy, healthy fourth grader with good grades and an eagerness to learn that he never had when he was doped up. Since then, I was shocked to find out how many children in his school are "doped" in order to mantain order and discipline. In my opinion, this takes the place of the hard work and dedication it takes from both teachers and parents to break in the more "stubborn" children that have always been around. It worked for me, and thank god, it worked for my son. Fight it every step of the way because no one cares more about your son than you do and, in many cases, you can beat it. wishing you all the best - from someone who knows. -z

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Marcie, I was hoping you'd respond....

Jake is 'different' to his brother and his sister. both are good students, both get rambunctious, both can be silly kids sometimes. Jake seems to be stuck in the 'silly kid/rambunctious' phase...all the time. occasionally i see that he's calm, and then i make sure to sit with him and make the most of it...whether we read, play a board game, do some math, whatever.....i try to maximize the time that we have. most of the time, however, he's bouncing off the walls and cannot follow instructions or listen to save his life.

I'm not a big fan of medicating kids. I think that it tends to mask the root issue. but, right now, there's no way in hell i'm going to be able to get jake to understand that he has to work on controlling his behaviour. it's just not going to sink in...hell it hasn't sunk in yet and i've been telling him and working with him for months. if meds help him to understand what he needs to do, then i'm all for medicating him until he gets a handle on himself and then weaning him off once he's got the necessary skills to cope with what he's feeling and thinking.

and yes, it is worth it.

i just wonder if I did something wrong....

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Please make sure that you always question everything that you are told by both and never give in to the pressure that you have and will no doubt expreience. His school told me he could not continue to attend unless he was "properly" medicated.

I always second guess doctors. I usually go to appointments with lists of questions to ask....so no worries there.

Bottom line, I want what's best for my child.

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Dharma:

There was a study done several years ago that I found very interesting--apparently, ADD and ADHD are "modern day" disorders. This doesn't mean that they didn't exist before, but that they were not considered disruptive in the past. People with ADD and ADHD are often better "crisis responders." These were the people, in the Middle Ages, who would guard the palace late at night because the adrenaline rush of an attack focused their attention.

The study also investigated fire departments and polices stations. A surprisingly high number of rescue workers are diagnosed with ADD. (The reason I know about this study is that my brother, a firefighter, has ADD and some one explained why that was such a likely career path for him).

If all of this is accurate, it seems that society has simply shifted to the extent that previously "normal" behavoir is now considered a "disorder." It's important to remember that we are all viewing life through different lenses, and the lenses that Jake sees things through might lead him on some exciting paths that he wouldn't have otherwise travelled if he were "normal."

So, I guess in a round-about way, I'm trying to say--don't worry. Different doesn't always equal wrong.

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I just got done filling out Jake's questionnaire from the doctor's office.

He scored incredibly high for ADD. The first 18 questions described him to a 'T'. I sat and had a good cry over it, then came to the realization that this is a good thing....that instead of being labelled as 'unruly' or dumb, Jake's going to get the help he needs to be his best, and that can't be a bad thing.

I'm afraid of one thing....of how he's going to be on the medication. I've heard some things about the side effects that bother me...but not enough to not want to at least try it.

I'm off to the school now, to ask his teacher to fill out her part. I know what it's going to look like, based on what she told me last week at conferences.

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KarmaGirl

Join Date 03/2001

+118

Dharma,

I'm going to give you my full view on the ADD thing. Some things may be helpful, some may not. Some may even make you mad, and some may not apply to you at all, but if any helps I'll be happy.

My daughter fits an ADHD profile 95%. I had three doctors tell me that she is ADHD and one *insisted* that I give her meds. I read some, read more, and started questioning everything that I read. What I found made me sad. Most *normal* kids can fit the profile of ADHD. The number of children being treated for ADHD is absolutely shocking. ADHD diagnosis is usually prompted by a teacher who is tired of "dealing" with a difficult child. Here are some random thoughts about it in no particular order or reason:

1) FOOD ALLERGY!!!! (OK, this one is #1 for a reason). I found out that the massive amounts of food preservatives, sugars, artificial ingredients and hormones cause children with sensitive nervous systems to have symptoms. This was the #1 thing that I found with my daughter and it ended up being dairy. She is OK with organic, but give her "regular" massed produced and watch her turn into devil child. Add that to a nice serving of ultra-blue fruit snacks and you barely can get her to sleep. I had doctors tell me that it couldn't be. I then was talking to an associate from another company who's tag line is "like a geek on dairy". He is also allergic to dairy, even as an adult. He likens drinking a glass of mass produced milk with drinking a 4 shot espresso. His Mom was told that he was ADD as a child but refused to medicate him. She eventually found a doctor that has been studying the effects of dairy on children.

2) Environment. Something that you send made me cringe- "since the start of the school year, Jake has consistently done this". Why just this year? What changed? (Well, I know some, but I am sure that there is more). What is his classroom/teacher like?

3) Attention. Things have changed in your life. He may be under stress and needs more attention.

4) Boredom. Kids who are not challenged lash out in different ways. As an example, my husband failed a grade because he didn't do homework and ignored the teacher. Why didn't he do it? It was boring and he didn't see the point, so he simply didn't pay attention.

5) It may simply be his personality. Some children are high strung. You meet people like this all the time, and you usually view them as "high energy". They usually end up being fairly successful, but had "issues" when they were children.

6) Some children have sensitive nervous systems that will be triggered by different things (This is actually what they expect colic is). My daughter is this way. Too much noise, too much stress, too much anything will turn her into a crazed child. It's the way she is, and she is growing and learning to deal with it.

7) I have a cousin who was having her daughter treated for ADHD. Come to find out the daughter was actually hypoglycemic. After a proper diet, the ADHD signs went away.

Don't know if any of that helps, but hopefully ot will help you question *everything* that the doctors say, and maybe have them look into other health issues that could be the underlying cause of his issues.

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Karma-

I'm having him tested for food allergies as well, and in the meantime I'm removing sugars and dairy to see if that makes a difference.

I sat down and thought about Jake's behaviour...this has been going on for ages. Like before his dad left last year. At the time, I attributed it to his dad being gone, but.....I don't know for sure that that was it.

Jake doesn't have too many issues with hyperactivity. Occasionally he'll have a bad day, but it's not a constant thing. His real issue is with attention and focus. All kids have problems with that, I know, but Jake......is markedly different. Like his teacher explained to me today, orally he's sharp, but he can't focus long enough to put it on paper. He cannot follow instructions to save his life...we break things down for him, so he only has to do one thing at a time, otherwise we get frustrated and so does he.

Don't worry, I'm going to try and do everything I can to make sure Jake gets the best treatment option for HIM, not for a kid with ADD (if that makes sense)

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Dharmagrl, I feel your anxiety. My son is 10 and he had a problem last year with his teacher in 4th Grade. He's the kind of child that is very creative and loves adventures. He especially loves to draw. He loves cartoons. My son was always on the Dean's list until he got to 4th Grade. Then we started having problems with him and school. His teacher wanted me to have him put on medication, I told her no way. After sitting with him and talking to him I found out that bottom line (1) he was bored in his class (2) he was intimidated by her. (3) She didn't give him a chance to answer questions, write his homework down and other things. As a precaution, I also took him to see his pediatrician who told me that there nothing wrong with him. My son is asthmatic and takes Advair and Singulair on a daily basis. This is the cause of his being hyper. What I have to do is make sure he eats and this stabilizes him, i.e., he's not so hyped all the time. I decided to see what I could do about removing him from his then classroom and with another teacher who would not be so strict. (this is not about discipline, rather about how she handled him). This teacher was very set in her ways and there's no if, ands, or buts with her. It's her way, a square box, and there's no venturing anywhere out of the square box. She didnt' allow her students to express themselves creatively, or try to work with or around my son so that he would improve in her class. So, after trying to change his class and by then it was too late. I decided that he has to stay in her class and I told him, no matter what you do, always, listen, pay attention to her in class, participate, do your home work and assignments and if you need help, I'll always be there. So I kept a vigilant schedule with him, always making sure that he turned projects in on time and do his homwork, etc. Some of the times, she wouldn't give him fair grades, for his work. I usually ask her why she graded him the way she did, her response was always, that's the system she uses. For most of the time in his class, he didnt' function that well. There was a time when he was even shutting down, literally and I tried to get the Guidance Counselor involved, but she only made promises and never followed up. I was so glad when he finally left her class at the end of the Summer term this year. His teacher was an older person who has been in the school system a long time. The new school year in 5th Grade, he has a younger teacher, a male. I waited anxiously to see what that would be like. My husband met with him first and then I did at the first face to face meeting. My son is back on track. He's very happy to be in this new class and more importantly, this teacher allows him to work freely with his creativeness. He produces his work, participates in class and is overall very happy to be in school again. While its not entirely a breeze all the way, cause kids will be kids, and I still am vigilant about homework and assignments, I can see him more relaxed and making a big effort and he knows his work will be rewarded, fairly. I know that this is different from your son's story, but sometimes looking at the overall picture is key. Some kids respond in different ways for different reasons. I know you will do the best for your child and good luck with what you have to do. I know it's not easy going through what you are experiencing. There's nothing wrong with either of you and you are not a bad parent. I used to wonder that of myself a lot of time. Because I used to spend sleepless nights thinking about what my son was going through and saw how much it affected him. In the beginning I would get angry and took that anger out on him, by being impatient and shouting and just ignoring him sometimes. Until I realized that that's not the way to react and started listening to him and putting what we were going through to others who went through the same thing and getting answers and advice. It will be very frustrating, but you are a patient person and I know you and your son will weather this storm. Goodluck.

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It will be very frustrating, but you are a patient person and I know you and your son will weather this storm. Goodluck.

Thank you.. his dad and I are sitting down this evening and coming up with a plan for Jake. We're reading about how kids with ADD need structure and discipline, and we're trying to work out a way for Jake to be able to follow directions....which is going to mean giving him single commands, instead of chain commands, things like that. It's going to be a big adjustment for his dad.....and I, now that I'm leaning more and more towards the probability of ADD, am feeling guilty. All the times I yelled at him or chastised him, and it wasn't really his fault.......

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deadzombie, I have a question for you...how did you tell your son? How did you explain to him that he had ADD? I'm going to have to tell jake why he's going to the doctor, and I'm not quite sure how to broach the subject.

thanks in advance, dude.....

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A friend of mines son was diagnosed with ADD and what did they do? Of all things they bought him a DRUM SET! I couldn't beleive it, but he really, REALLY took to it! I know it would'nt work for everybody, but it was a Godsend for him. Maybe it has something to do with the flow of the beat, I don't know.

My best friend in school had ADD. He is an outstanding man today. This can be overcome.

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This can be overcome.

I know. I'm determined to work as hard as I can to make jake's life 'normal'....

You know, he has 2 things that he can sit still for: math and jigsaw puzzles (as long as they're around 100 pieces, or else he gets disillusioned). So, his dad and i are going to go get him some new puzzles tomorrow and make a point of doing some math with him every night. We've also moved a rocker into his room....so that when he has to go for a timeout he won't have to sit totally still (which he finds hard sometimes); he can rock himself as much as he wants.

I'm relieved.....now I have an idea that it's not just jake acting up, things look a lot different. But, i'm feeling guilty as hell. that i was a bad parent in some way, that i didn't pay him enough attention.....and also over all the times i've chastised him for something he literally had no control over.

he's an awesome child, a truly wonderful little boy.

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K~

Ack! Darlin...don't think that if Jake actually has ADD that it's your parenting, or something you did wrong...because its not.

I don't know...I worry about that...I have kids who have a hard time sitting still and getting things done. I try to get them a nice, quiet, private spot where they can work, but sometimes, that doesn't work either. I think with my one boy...I'm just going to pull him aside, take him behind my desk and say "This is YOUR work spot. No one will bother you here. This is your space to get things done during reading. Let's try it and see if it works. Just a change in environment can make a difference, you know? These kids are fine when we're doing something as a whole group, its when I let them off by themselves that they have a hard time staying on task. I think I might invite some kids to just sit close to me, too...so they can feed off of what we're in a small group and have that security of me being there with them. They're still babies, you know? They need that.

Another thing I try to do is make sure I at least say good morning to each kid and make a little bit of contact with each one so they know that I've acknowledged that they're there and that I'm glad they're at school today! They have a little bit of me then. I try to make individual contact with everyone every day too...a hug if they want, just asking them how they're doing, etc. I think its important for teachers to build rapport with students...that way they feel safe to be themselves, make mistakes, and even succeed in that classroom.

I think what Karma said is the route to go...you know...if modifying his diet or his environment is going to help that behavior, THAT is DEFINITELY the way to go...I'd avoid meds if I could...BUT...if they help him focus without losing his "Jake-ness"...why not?

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