DRM problem with used copy » Forum Post by epiclulz

But Serial can be transferred.... it have already happen... and more... a guy here have post that he have proof to Stardock that he was the owner of the CD/DVD by given the nummer embedded on the disk inner ring... and miracle, he receive a new serial...

There is no automated process for detaching a serial key, and having a serial key tied to an account is unnecessary to begin with. There wouldn't be any problems if the serial key didn't have to be tied to an account.

You have never seek a solution in these topic, only rant about Stardock...

I returned the game many weeks ago. Pay attention.

They don't try to kill second hand sales, they're not greedy

They are killing second hand sales, that's a fact. And that makes them greedy.

Geez, did I even mention your name? In fact, that post wasn't even targetted at you, it was a reply to Zubaz who talked about not feeding trolls.

Sure...

You have adamantly argued that you are not a troll, and yet when people talk about trolls, you say that they are actually talking about you. Geez, make up your mind, do you want to be a troll or not?

That doesn't even make any sense. If people are accusing me of trolling and I acknowledge that they are doing so and post a counter-argument, it means that I'm admitting that I'm a troll? What?

Where did you redefine the meaning of "original post"?

That's not the same thing. I didn't change the topic. I've already explained this.

Locked keys to Impulse Accounts -> SD is greedy -> Warning Labels.

Wait, what? You are saying that because more than one subject has been discussed during the course of this thread (shocking), I'm guilty of arbitrarily changing the subject mid-debate for no valid reason? Uh...

Regardless of whether you are right or wrong, you would get a better reception to your ideas if you were be polite. Are you able to be polite?

I'm not entirely sure what relevance politeness or the lack of it is supposed to have in the context of this thread.

Go check with a lawyer if you do not believe me. Governments cannot enact laws without telling people - that's what congress/parliament/etc are for.

No, I'm pretty sure the North Korean government can do whatever they want to. Or some other similiar government, or some hypothetical government (since the example itself was hypothetical and made for the purposes of illustrating a point).

Geez, go Google it for crying out loud.

In my example ignorance of the law would be a valid defense. That's an indisputable fact. Likewise, if a company employee made a mistake because the company hadn't briefed him about some new policy, ignorance would be a valid defense.

But he's repeating his points over and over again, as if repeating it 100 times will allow him to win this debate

That's because people keep bringing up the same arguments over and over as if they hadn't read the thread (hmm).

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duplicate

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Again, again and again: what could you possibly do with that information?

I want to know. I wont shop at a store chain that doesn't do buisness properly.

Again, in my hypothetical example

Your hypothetical example is bullshit.

Again, I had no way of knowing about the DRM.

Virtually every PC game has those.

Just in case if you did get it the first time around.

Again, I had no way of knowing about the DRM.

Virtually every PC game has those.

nice

When I buy it becomes my property.

Does you have ownership of the copyright? Damn you must be missing out on your cut of all the sales.

Not informing customers about the crippling DRM that the game has is deception.

Nope they never withold information.

Well, this certainly is pretty... random? I'm getting the feeling that you aren't "all there."

Attempting to help you help yourself, seeing as you are completely lacking in common sense.

Epiclulz, you are a kid.

Your arguments make no sense, when asked for proof of your claims you can't show any.

If someone gives you an argument you can't respond logicly to you automaticly dismiss it as "not a valid explanation".

The explaination is very valid, only you are much to short-sighted and immature to see it. Just saying "not a valid explaination" when you feel like it doesn't work. Your going to have to show proof of your claims, and since you can't well thats to bad there kiddo.

Your complaining about a problem that only exists in your mind.

So pop that titty out of your mouth and stop acting like a baby in the face of your problems.

LET THOSE TESTICLES DESCEND!!!!!

I have made my argument with you,

The more your try to argue the fact the more you confirm it, so I have nothing else to say on the matter.

I allready wasted enough time talking with an immature kid.

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I want to know. I wont shop at a store chain that doesn't do buisness properly.

It's not a chain, it's a small independent store. And what is improper about their business practises?

Your hypothetical example is bullshit.

No, it is not.

Just in case if you did get it the first time around.

You're quoting out of context and you know it. I had no way of knowing what type of DRM the game has, but I, like anyone else, know that virtually every PC game has some DRM or copy protection.

Does you have ownership of the copyright? Damn you must be missing out on your cut of all the sales.

Again, it becomes my property when I buy it. That's how it works over here whether you like it or not.

Nope they never withold information.

Yes they do. There is no warning on the packaging.

Epiclulz, you are a kid.

And you molest little children!

See, I can make unfounded accusations too.

Your arguments make no sense

What a devastating and detailed counter-argument.

when asked for proof of your claims you can't show any.

Example?

If someone gives you an argument you can't respond logicly to you automaticly dismiss it as "not a valid explanation".

What arguments are you referring to, and why can't I dismiss an argument as invalid after arguing against it and determing that it's invalid?

The explaination is very valid, only you are much to short-sighted and immature to see it. Just saying "not a valid explaination" when you feel like it doesn't work.

What explanation is valid?

Your going to have to show proof of your claims, and since you can't well thats to bad there kiddo.

I have constantly backed up my claims with arguments.

Your complaining about a problem that only exists in your mind.

This is objectively false. It is a fact that the game's packaging has no warning of its DRM. It is a fact that the game's DRM cripples second hand copies.

I allready wasted enough time talking with an immature kid.

Well I can't say I like talking to child molesters either. Get that infant cock out of your mouth!

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ZubaZ

Join Date 11/2001

+917

Attacking other members is a bannable event. I'm going to chalk this one up to hyperbole but consider this a warnign to everyone to follow the terms of service and be respectful of each other.

As a side note . .I am sorely tempted to lock this post as nothing new has been said and it's just a mater of time before Godwin's law goes into effect. I'd rather avoid all that. Thanks. (and happy 2009!)

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Quoting Zubaz,

reply 5

...it's just a mater of time before Godwin's law goes into effect.

I think epiclulz believes he was wronged by Stardock. Stardock is from the USA. This is dangerous. The last time someone thought he was wronged by a nation or a religion, Hitler happened.

There, the probability is now 1.

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You have adamantly argued that you are not a troll, and yet when people talk about trolls, you say that they are actually talking about you. Geez, make up your mind, do you want to be a troll or not?

That doesn't even make any sense. If people are accusing me of trolling and I acknowledge that they are doing so and post a counter-argument, it means that I'm admitting that I'm a troll? What?

When people accuse you of being a troll, you demand proof and refute the accusation. So, if you are not a troll, why are you so sensitive when people talk about trolls and you act like they were talking about you?

Where did you redefine the meaning of "original post"?

That's not the same thing. I didn't change the topic. I've already explained this.

Locked keys to Impulse Accounts -> SD is greedy -> Warning Labels.

Wait, what? You are saying that because more than one subject has been discussed during the course of this thread (shocking), I'm guilty of arbitrarily changing the subject mid-debate for no valid reason? Uh...

I'm not questioning your ability or your right to change the topic/subject mid-debate. I'm saying that when others do it, you complain, but yet you do the same thing yourself and justify it by calling it by a different term (ie. redefining the "original post") or saying that it is your right to do so. This reeks of double standards and unfair practices.

Regardless of whether you are right or wrong, you would get a better reception to your ideas if you were be polite. Are you able to be polite?

I'm not entirely sure what relevance politeness or the lack of it is supposed to have in the context of this thread.

I just said. Didn't you read? Regardless of whether you are right or wrong, you would get a better reception to your ideas and comments if you were polite. It is specifically about your conduct on this thread. Or are you intentionally being impolite and do not really care if people receive your views openly? Just like you do not really care to take any action about this whatsoever (except posting in this thread)?

Go check with a lawyer if you do not believe me. Governments cannot enact laws without telling people - that's what congress/parliament/etc are for.

No, I'm pretty sure the North Korean government can do whatever they want to. Or some other similiar government, or some hypothetical government (since the example itself was hypothetical and made for the purposes of illustrating a point).

I'm pretty sure that ignorance of the law is not a defense in your country - and that is not hypothetical. What country are you from? Shall you tell us and we can check and find out if my assertion is right or wrong?

Attacking other members is a bannable event. I'm going to chalk this one up to hyperbole but consider this a warnign to everyone to follow the terms of service and be respectful of each other.

Quite right. I'm all for free and open debate. I don't mind sarcastic remarks even (esp. if witty) and even debate with trolls. But name calling is not debate. It is just plain uncivilized and rude. The trouble is, certain people on this thread have even said in black and white that they do not see the relevance of being polite to this thread at all. Very sad.

As a side note . .I am sorely tempted to lock this post as nothing new has been said and it's just a mater of time before Godwin's law goes into effect. I'd rather avoid all that.

True, true. I agree. Been saying so myself. Epiclulz has also asserted that others are not reading or comprehending this thread and keeps bringing up the same points over and over again. So he/she is happy to repost all his/her same responses over and over again.

and happy 2009!

Yes, a happy 2009 to everyone!

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Quoting The_Regicide,

reply 6

Quoting Zubaz, reply 5...it's just a mater of time before Godwin's law goes into effect.
I think epiclulz believes he was wronged by Stardock. Stardock is from the USA. This is dangerous. The last time someone thought he was wronged by a nation or a religion, Hitler happened.

There, the probability is now 1.

Err, I think you just invoked Quirk's Exception: Intentional invocation of this so-called "Nazi Clause" (Godwin's Law) is ineffectual.

But ROFLMAO to your invocation!!!

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But by warning against Godwin's law in a thread, Zubaz actually made Godwin's law uninvokable, as any post that would otherwise fulfill the terms of Godwin's law would instead fall under Quirk's Exception...

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ZubaZ

Join Date 11/2001

+917

For the record: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin_Law

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When people accuse you of being a troll, you demand proof and refute the accusation. So, if you are not a troll, why are you so sensitive when people talk about trolls and you act like they were talking about you?

You're still not making any logical sense.

I'm not questioning your ability or your right to change the topic/subject mid-debate. I'm saying that when others do it, you complain, but yet you do the same thing yourself and justify it by calling it by a different term (ie. redefining the "original post") or saying that it is your right to do so. This reeks of double standards and unfair practices.

Again, where have I changed the topic?

I just said. Didn't you read? Regardless of whether you are right or wrong, you would get a better reception to your ideas and comments if you were polite. It is specifically about your conduct on this thread. Or are you intentionally being impolite and do not really care if people receive your views openly? Just like you do not really care to take any action about this whatsoever (except posting in this thread)?

Are you expecting Stardock to change their policies because one person politely asks them to? Seriously?

I'm pretty sure that ignorance of the law is not a defense in your country - and that is not hypothetical.

I don't live in North Korea, and it was my example that was hypothetical.

Quite right. I'm all for free and open debate. I don't mind sarcastic remarks even (esp. if witty) and even debate with trolls. But name calling is not debate. It is just plain uncivilized and rude.

And this is coming from the guy who's calling me a troll. Lol.

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The box describes what the game is, not what it isn't. If the latter were the case we would need an extremely large box

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EpicLulz could you rephrase what your arguments are please?

Ignoring the comments of those above and arguments about the first post and what ever else just say what your point is so we can get back on topic.

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

Are you expecting Stardock to change their policies because one person politely asks them to? Seriously?

It's a heck of a lot more likely than the chances we will based on the attitude and langauge you've displayed thus far. A calm, polite request can go a long way; hurling insults and foul language just makes you look like a jerk.

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The box describes what the game is, not what it isn't. If the latter were the case we would need an extremely large box

This isn't about the game, this is about the DRM used by the game.

It's a heck of a lot more likely than the chances we will based on the attitude and langauge you've displayed thus far. A calm, polite request can go a long way; hurling insults and foul language just makes you look like a jerk.

Why do you expect politeness after fudging over people for profit?

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

You didn't seem to catch the drift, so I'll put it a little more directly. You can keep your soapbox and lose the language, or vice-versa. Choice is yours, but bear in mind that people who've gotten themselves booted for dropping f-bombs left and right and flaming other users don't generally find their opinions carrying much weight here.

We'll tolerate criticism of ourselves within reason (note this thread still exists--on most sites it'd probably be long past gone), but flaming and spouting profanity to such a ridiculous degree is a quick route out of here.

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Draginol

Join Date 03/2001

+137

If our system keeps people liek epiclulz from using/buying our stuff, then I would say it's a feature.

I think Epiclulz is being purposely obtuse. We don't do anything at all to prevent people from selling their games. But it's certainly not our responsibility to spend money creating some system to make it easier.

The person who buys a game second-hand isn't our customer. The transaction is between two third parties that doesn't involve us.

By Eiclulz's argument, this forum's UserID and password is a form of DRM. There will always be a fringe group that will never be happy no matter what.

+1

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You (epiclulz) pay a company (stardock) for a service, however by buying it second hand, you gave no money to stardock so are not entitled to a service from them.

Furthermore you continue to rant on the forum about how it's a big corparate scam etc. , when you have already have gained a refund on the product. If ranting about a game you don't even own is what you do in your free time, then I seriously think you should re-evaluate how you spend it.

Rogue tomato

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If our system keeps people liek epiclulz from using/buying our stuff, then I would say it's a feature.

So now you don't care about money at all? Ok, cool. Does that mean you'll start offering the game for free?

I think Epiclulz is being purposely obtuse. We don't do anything at all to prevent people from selling their games.

You cripple the game so that it isn't worth anything as a used product, and anyone familiar with its DRM won't want to buy or trade it. It's hilarious that you can't even admit what you're doing.

But it's certainly not our responsibility to spend money creating some system to make it easier.

Yes, I'm absolutely sure that placing a warning on the packaging will require some elaborate and expensive "system."

The person who buys a game second-hand isn't our customer. The transaction is between two third parties that doesn't involve us.

Which doesn't mean that you aren't needlessly causing problems for people.

By Eiclulz's argument, this forum's UserID and password is a form of DRM

I have never made such an argument, don't make shit up.

There will always be a fringe group that will never be happy no matter what.

There's that evasion and denial again. You're acting like this is some harmless little issue when in fact you're deliberately causing unnecessary problems for people.

You (epiclulz) pay a company (stardock) for a service, however by buying it second hand, you gave no money to stardock so are not entitled to a service from them.

I'm sure nobody in the history of this thread has ever made this argument. Well done.

Furthermore you continue to rant on the forum about how it's a big corparate scam etc. , when you have already have gained a refund on the product. If ranting about a game you don't even own is what you do in your free time, then I seriously think you should re-evaluate how you spend it.

What are you doing here, then?

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I vote for this thread to be locked.

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I vote for this thread to be framed and stickied, made available from every Stardock forum everywhere.

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So now you don't care about money at all? Ok, cool. Does that mean you'll start offering the game for free?

No, I believe he ment stardock does not want your personal business and could care less about your problem. So, debating or argueing the point any more is useless. This is not the first time they have said this..but probably the nicest way i've seen it stated.

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ZubaZ

Join Date 11/2001

+917

No, I believe he ment stardock does not want your personal business and could care less about your problem. So, debating or argueing the point any more is useless. This is not the first time they have said this..but probably the nicest way i've seen it stated.

More often than not it's accompanied by a banning from the forums, and the store. Must be the holiday season.

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You cripple the game so that it isn't worth anything as a used product, and anyone familiar with its DRM won't want to buy or trade it. It's hilarious that you can't even admit what you're doing.

There are two benefits to registering your CD key: online play through the matchmaking service and updating past 1.05. I patched using the regular downloadable patch for 1.05 and only play singleplayer, and enjoyed the game greatly. I registered my key to get the 1.10 beta when it became available, but this was completely unecessary to my enjoyment of the product I had purchased. However, by your argument, I do not exist because I found great use out of the product without using any features that required use of activation. Someone like me would have lost nothing had they purchased the game second-hand. So why should they admit they are making the game useless as a used product, since it is only in your imagination that this is the case?

+1

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A side note - would it be safe t oassume that say once patch 1.3 comes out that 1.12 would be made available through "traditional" means?

or would there be a way to have the download be made available with a signed download containing a method for determining the origional user?

I ask only out of curiousity - i don't particualarly care for impulse but it do see the value behind it. I like 3mb patches

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