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stevendedalus
stevendedalus
Join Date 11/2003
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Timetable, Horizon or a Hundred Years

August 2, 2008 10:56:41 PM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

 

A sixteen month timetable set by Obama is meaningless and dishonest when it is still conditional on the situation in Iraq. The “horizon” set by Bush is also without meaning because by definition it recedes as approached and thus never reached. McCain’s goal of 2013 is equally pointless since it is a dead giveaway that the surge apparently is not working and troop detainment could very well be extended for a hundred years.

The real point is that it is clear no one has the will to simply end the damn war. It is clear, however, that what will dictate termination will not so much be conditions on the ground as economic conditions at home and the Pentagon’s inability to sustain the maddening cycle of troop tours at the breaking point, which incidentally will preclude the madness sending more troops to Afghanistan.

Hunting down bin Laden has long ago missed its opportunity. And the resurgence of the Taliban cannot be eliminated without an all-out assault which this nation has shown it no longer has the will to be serious in time of war.

 

 

Copyright © 2008 Richard R. Kennedy All rights reserved. Revised: Aug 2,  2008.

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hundred years politics
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stevendedalus
erathoniel
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #1 August 2, 2008 11:40:42 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

So, wait, the surge isn't working? Why is even the left news telling me it does work? Why are soldiers telling me it works?

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stevendedalus
stevendedalus
Join Date 11/2003
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Reply #2 August 2, 2008 11:49:28 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
No, I implied that in the context of McCain's diffidence in the surge if we still have to wait till 2013!
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stevendedalus
ThinkAloud
Join Date 04/2004
+2
Reply #3 August 3, 2008 12:29:49 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

So, wait, the surge isn't working? Why is even the left news telling me it does work? Why are soldiers telling me it works?

It is not a puzzle to determine whether the surge has worked or not. It was made to look like one only because that is the only way McCain and Bush can say they did something right.

It is very simple. just determine what was the "ultimate" not the "intermediate" purpose of the surge?

According to everyone, and i mean every single person in the administration and McCain, the "ultimate goal" was to give the Iraqi fueding factions breathing room from violence so they can reach some kind of agreement and end the hostilities between themselves.

the breathing room was achieved by the Surge Troops..... but there is no progress on the political front.

So now you tell me... did the surge achieve its purpose.... from the facts on the ground ... no it did not. was the breathing room from violence was achieved ... of course ... our troops always achieve any military goal given to them .... but that was not the main Goal ....

Every one including the top military commanders in Iraq declared several times that the problem in Iraq could not be solved militarily ... it is a political and ethnic problem and it has been there for more than 1300 yrs. are we going to keep the troops there till they solve that????????

If keeping the troops there has a hidden undeclared purpose ... which is mere occupation of an oil-rich land ... then lets stop pretending .... and tell the American people the truth. and let them decide

 

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stevendedalus
Eagle Seven
Join Date 04/2008
0
Reply #4 August 3, 2008 3:48:03 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Are none of you familiar with the Anbar Awakening? There has been significant political peacemaking throughout the country thanks to the breathing space provided by the surge. For the first time in years, Shia militias aren't attacking Sunni neighborhoods!

If that's not political progress, what the hell do you expect? You expect the Iraqi government to solve all its problems within a few months of the violence slowing? Our own government cannot seem to pull us out of our own energy crisis, and they don't have to deal with ethnic rivalries dating back 1000 years...


"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it."
- George Orwell


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stevendedalus
Dr Guy
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #5 August 3, 2008 11:43:07 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
It is clear, however, that what will dictate termination will not so much be conditions on the ground as economic conditions at home and the Pentagon’s inability to sustain the maddening cycle of troop tours at the breaking point, which incidentally will preclude the madness sending more troops to Afghanistan.


You do seemed to have attracted some of the partisans that are going to darken these pages for the next 4 months. I see they have their talking points, but dont read much either.

But I disagree with your statement. IN the end, the US has an infinite capacity to continue the occupation (the war is after all over) of Iraq. The troop terms are going back to normal, and the down turn in the economy will only serve to extend the will of the people, not eliminate it.

What will end it is the same thing that ended (the actual act, not the politics and dynamics that lead up to it) Vietnam. We will declare it over, and go home. Whether it is over or not will remain to be seen.
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stevendedalus
stevendedalus
Join Date 11/2003
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Reply #6 August 4, 2008 12:48:58 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I'd rather the American politicians and the people decide when it is over than the Iraqis.
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stevendedalus
Daiwa
Join Date 07/2001
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Reply #7 August 4, 2008 2:05:07 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
troop detainment could very well be extended for a hundred years.

C'mon, now - you know better than to repeat that claptrap.
I'd rather the American politicians and the people decide when it is over than the Iraqis.

Not even Obama will be so foolish as to expose our troops to risk by too rapid a withdrawal, but I consider the Iraqi government telling us it is nearing time to go a very positive thing - wasn't very long ago at all that talk of a rapid pullout scared the beejesus out of 'em; they couldn't get to a mike/reporter fast enough to say, "No, no, no!! We need you here!"
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ParaTed2k
Join Date 12/2004
+35
Reply #8 August 4, 2008 4:00:32 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

No artificial calendar will ever be a legitimate way to fight or end a war.  The events on the battlefield are the ONLY real way to determine the next course of action.


 


When people demand artificial timetables they are only revealling their ignorance.  When polticians talk about them, they are only showing their willingness to pander to the ignorant.

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stevendedalus
stevendedalus
Join Date 11/2003
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Reply #9 August 5, 2008 12:53:26 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
C'mon, now - you know better than to repeat that claptrap.


I gave McCain the slack by mentioning 2013. If the oil companies have their way we will be there a hundred years for huge reserve requiring little effort compared to offshore drilling.
The events on the battlefield are the ONLY real way to determine the next course of action.
Since the surge is working send them home.

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stevendedalus
Daiwa
Join Date 07/2001
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Reply #10 August 5, 2008 10:38:51 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
If the oil companies have their way we will be there a hundred years for huge reserve requiring little effort compared to offshore drilling.

Good argument for making offshore drilling a tad less expensive & cumbersome, wouldn't you say? We are incredibly selfish here in the US. We want cheap oil & gas but we're not willing to get our hands dirty or have drilling in our own back yard. Let the drilling happen where it spoils the 'natural beauty' of some other godforsaken place inhabited by people we could give a shit about, people willing to get their hands & land dirty, long as we don't have to drive by it every day. That's not the oil companies saying that, that's the elitist left.

The 'oil companies' are not the big bad bogeyman and they don't dictate where our troops are deployed. How much oil do we get out of Germany, BTW?
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ParaTed2k
Join Date 12/2004
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Reply #11 August 5, 2008 10:48:15 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Since the surge is working send them home.


What kind of logic says, "if something is working, quit!"?

Oh yeah, I'm expecting logic for the Bash Bush Bus.. my mistake.
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stevendedalus
Basmas
Join Date 05/2003
+3
Reply #12 August 5, 2008 12:27:20 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I'd rather the American politicians and the people decide when it is over than the Iraqis.


The iraqis don't get a say in which militaries are active in their country?
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stevendedalus
CharlesCS
Join Date 08/2006
+81
Reply #13 August 5, 2008 1:28:04 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Since the surge is working send them home.


Key word, working. Not worked. Meaning still going not finished. But yea, I forget Democrats are the "immediate/right now results" party.
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stevendedalus
stevendedalus
Join Date 11/2003
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Reply #14 August 5, 2008 1:38:28 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
The 'oil companies' are not the big bad bogeyman and they don't dictate where our troops are deployed. How much oil do we get out of Germany, BTW?


Did not infer they were bogeypersons. Germany probably supplies them with tools of the trade.
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