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Destroy Minor Race's Influencer Starbase ASAP?

Destroy Minor Races ASAP?

June 17, 2008 1:59:04 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Is it a good idea to destroy any Minor Race's Influencer Starbase within your shaded area of controlled space ASAP at the beginning of the game if they are affecting any of your planets and/or mining bases    or by doing this will the other major races see this as a reason to go to war earlier then normal?  

I know the answer if I am playing evil, but what if you are playing a good or neutral race, how will this affect your ethical and foreign policy in the eyes of the other major races that are good or neutral.
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EzTex
HighWater
Join Date 09/2007
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Reply #1 June 17, 2008 2:56:55 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Do you mean an Influence Starbase built by a Minor Race, or do you mean a Mining Base on an Influence resource?

In the first case, ignore it, it will have zero effect on your planets/mines etc. so it isn't really worth the hassle.
In the second case, blow it up whenever you think is best and immediatly claim it yourself with a constructor. As long as you don't kill off the minor race, there won't be any diplomatic penalties for your aggression. (Though their home planet is a tempting target really.)
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Loupdinour
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Reply #2 June 17, 2008 4:42:49 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
(Though their home planet is a tempting target really.)


...Which is why you so nicely gift them a PQ1 world deep in your territory, to keep them safe you know... Then um...relieve them of that tasty PQ 15 they started on.
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Reply #3 June 17, 2008 6:58:37 PM
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Thanks HighWater for clarifying that for me because both cases are very helpful.
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EzTex
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Reply #4 June 17, 2008 7:08:39 PM
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(Though their home planet is a tempting target really.)...Which is why you so nicely gift them a PQ1 world deep in your territory, to keep them safe you know... Then um...relieve them of that tasty PQ 15 they started on.


Hey, Loupdinour this sound like what an attorney, politician, real-estate developer, or landman would do in today’s real world.
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Loupdinour
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Reply #5 June 17, 2008 8:30:48 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Hey, Loupdinour this sound like what an attorney, politician, real-estate developer, or landman would do in today’s real world.


Last I checked, one of the X's in a 4X game was eXploit...
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StarMan99
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Reply #6 June 17, 2008 8:31:28 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Highwater,

Why do you say to ignore an `influence starbase' because it will have zero effect on your planets?

Even if a starbase isn't built on an influence resource, a starbase can still be upgraded to have mega influence, which could potentially flip one of your planets, right?

Or am I missing something in your guys definitions?

Thanks
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ghostwes
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Reply #7 June 17, 2008 8:58:05 PM
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Last I checked, one of the X's in a 4X game was eXploit...


Wait, you mean it's not eXfoliate? Crap, I've been playing these games all wrong...

Last I checked, minor civs are neither affected by influence, nor does their influence affect anything, so you're best off just ignoring their influence starbases altogether, other than to wonder why they bother. I guess if they were smarter, they'd be considered a major race.
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WIllythemailboy
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Reply #8 June 17, 2008 9:02:48 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Highwater,Why do you say to ignore an `influence starbase' because it will have zero effect on your planets?Even if a starbase isn't built on an influence resource, a starbase can still be upgraded to have mega influence, which could potentially flip one of your planets, right?Or am I missing something in your guys definitions?Thanks


Minor civs are immune to influence - they don't generate it, and they can't be flipped. An influence base owned by a minor civ has absolutely no effect on its surroundings. A mining base on an infuence resource gives them no benefit, but it prevents you from using that resource. Thus the recommendation to take the resource base and ignore the other one.
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HighWater
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Reply #9 June 18, 2008 6:27:54 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Minor civs are immune to influence - they don't generate it,


Almost true, they generate it, (check the Negotiations screen, they clearly generate IP's, which they can't use in the UP, but you can if you buy them from them, though that's usually too expensive to bother)
it just has zero effect on their surroundings. The Minor races are effectively "lifted" out of galactic influence, they can't be affected by other races' influence, they can't affect other races with their own influence and they can't take part in the United Planets council. In all fairness, they shouldn't bother with either type of influence starbase, but they do so all the same.
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Reply #10 June 18, 2008 7:40:07 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Almost true, they generate it, (check the Negotiations screen, they clearly generate IP's, which they can't use in the UP, but you can if you buy them from them, though that's usually too expensive to bother)


This particular influence has nothing to do with the area shon on the map. It's really nothing more than the numbr of votes you get in the UP. After a vote thios number goes to zero and you start accumulating more again until the next vote.

So while the minors have somthing listed on the trade screen buying any of this will not increase your civ's influence range or help you flip planets in any way.
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antracer
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Reply #11 June 18, 2008 11:54:13 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I blow up ANY influence base from ANY race in my space. I just hate somebody putting a base in my territory. They should have to ask, file some papers and get approved or something. Sometimes I regret my decision, but most times I can get away with it without anything big happening. A few battles, a little time and declare peace. Once I did it without thinking first and the Drengin marched across the galaxy and well... It was going quite well up to that point. No regrets though... It was alot of not so much fun but I learned some tactics that have helped in subsequent campaigns.

Taking the resource from the minors though... I thought they could use them. I can tell you I will be "relieving" them of any resources they claim in the future.

The gifting of the P1 world and taking their P15 is brilliant! Totally shameful, but brilliant... I could probably classify that as a "neutral" action...

T
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Loupdinour
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Reply #12 June 18, 2008 12:54:42 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I blow up ANY influence base from ANY race in my space.


Thing is, your space is only the planet itself and anything you own floating about. Your area of influence is just space in which people see you as their favorite empire.
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HighWater
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Reply #13 June 18, 2008 1:05:06 PM
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Taking the resource from the minors though... I thought they could use them. I can tell you I will be "relieving" them of any resources they claim in the future.


They can only not (properly) use the influence resource, it still boosts their IP generated, but as stated above that IP can only be used in an UP meeting and they can't attend those. So basically it's pointless for them.
The other resources do affect them. That said, sucker-punch them in the crotch as soon as you're ready to destroy the base, claim the resource and defend it. No mercy for the weak.

This particular influence has nothing to do with the area shon on the map. It's really nothing more than the numbr of votes you get in the UP. After a vote thios number goes to zero and you start accumulating more again until the next vote.

So while the minors have somthing listed on the trade screen buying any of this will not increase your civ's influence range or help you flip planets in any way.


Completely true, their IP is only useful in the UP vote, I only ask for their IP when I'm buying them out of the game. (Buying their only planet from them, once it turns green, you can ask for all their money and IP to go with it, so might aswell take it.)
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Reply #14 June 18, 2008 3:15:25 PM
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(Though their home planet is a tempting target really.)...Which is why you so nicely gift them a PQ1 world deep in your territory, to keep them safe you know... Then um...relieve them of that tasty PQ 15 they started on.

I usually just take their homeworld, period. Their planet always belonged to me, they just happened to be mistakenly living on it for a short while. I dont worry about the diplomatic penalty. To keep enemy civs from declaring war on me before I want to go to war, I keep them in a state of perpetual war with each other. Throughout my game, at least after year 1, I make sure each AI is at war with at least one other, usually more than one. This results in them being "too busy to risk war" with you. I also like to have the enemy civs that are at war with each other be as far away from their foes as possible. That way they spend lots of time and energy on warfare, but never accomplish anything. It also makes the remaining civs more likely to declare war on them as well.

Kzinti empire2.JPG Sentient species taste better...

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Reply #15 June 18, 2008 3:29:51 PM
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I keep them in a state of perpetual war with each other.


Also helps ruin future alliances by those races...It's lonely at the top
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Reply #16 June 18, 2008 4:11:27 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Lonely, but the view is nice. Master of all you survey...

Also, if two enemy civs already have a tech or econ treaty with each other, I try to break it up by having one declare war on the other. It works most of the time....and then I scarf up those treaties for a nice bonus.   

Kzinti empire2.JPG Sentient species taste better...

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Reply #17 June 19, 2008 7:02:56 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I blow up ANY influence base from ANY race in my space.Thing is, your space is only the planet itself and anything you own floating about. Your area of influence is just space in which people see you as their favorite empire.


And their favorite empire loves them dearly for it... and is willing to blow the crap out of anyone who tries to change their minds...

I don't usually care whether a race likes me or not. I tend to pick a few after the first few years and buddy up and play nice. Usually, Races don't last long enough for the treaties to make a difference, and the ones I don't play nice with would eat me anyways... so the fight will always come my way eventually. They all seem to fight each other at the drop of a hat so there's always somebody to saunter up next to and alleviate the troubles they have... and a few worlds while I'm there... from their burden.

I do have a question though... Not focusing on the diplomacy I seem to have missed a few things. I am curious as to the specific steps/treaties you use to ask others to fight, when making A fight B fight C etc. I'm looking to go up a difficulty level, and figure diplomacy (or taking advantage of it) will be one of the things I will have to start paying attention to.

If you would be so kind as to share...

T
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Reply #18 June 20, 2008 1:07:27 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I blowI do have a question though... Not focusing on the diplomacy I seem to have missed a few things. I am curious as to the specific steps/treaties you use to ask others to fight, when making A fight B fight C etc. I'm looking to go up a difficulty level, and figure diplomacy (or taking advantage of it) will be one of the things I will have to start paying attention to. If you would be so kind as to share...T

It's usually pretty easy, you just bribe them with tech or money. They dont even have to particularly like you. Everyone has their price.

Kzinti empire2.JPG Sentient species taste better...

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HighWater
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Reply #19 June 20, 2008 6:54:24 AM
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It is important how much they like/fear the one you are trying to get them to fight though. It's more expensive to buy someone into a war against a superior military. It's not possible to bribe someone into war against races they like too much. I usually buy the Drengin into war with everyone, as they tend to be cocky and think they can actually win. And then I start some wars between the other races, for good measure. It's relatively cheap compared to how much risk reduction it provides against early wars when you're not ready yet.
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Reply #20 June 20, 2008 9:06:43 AM
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Not to sound silly, and not having played in a bit... what exactly do you choose in the offer screen ??? I would assume the war button under treaties ??? I always thought that was how you "formally" declared war on them.

Pardon my ignorance, but I'm missing something... and it's not my brain because that's in the jar on the shelf above my computer...

Thanks for the help BTW... much as I hate to be the dunce, I figure somebody else probably has this question and it will be helpful to more than just me.

T
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Reply #21 June 20, 2008 10:34:06 AM
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On their side of the window, choose "attack" under the relations part - when you choose attack, you get a drop down list of races they're willing to attack. YOu won't be able to get them to attack people they like, or have a treaty with.

You can do much the same with make peace - pay someone to stop attacking whoever they're currently stomping.
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Reply #22 June 20, 2008 10:43:44 AM
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On their side of the window, choose "attack" under the relations part - when you choose attack, you get a drop down list of races they're willing to attack. YOu won't be able to get them to attack people they like, or have a treaty with.You can do much the same with make peace - pay someone to stop attacking whoever they're currently stomping.

You can get them to attack civs they have tech & econ treaties with. I do this all the time to break up any possible alliances before they form, and to make them take a reputation hit. It helps keep the galaxy in chaos so I can prey upon them all the easier.

You cant get them to attack someone they have an alliance with.

Kzinti empire2.JPG Sentient species taste better...
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Reply #23 June 20, 2008 10:59:28 AM
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Gah, you're right. I shouldn't be posting before I'm entirely awake   
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Reply #24 June 20, 2008 7:59:09 PM
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Gah, you're right. I shouldn't be posting before I'm entirely awake   


I must LIVE asleep... I'm going to start a game and load a save just to see that button... I swear I've never even noticed it!!!

Now that I know where it is and what it does however... My galaxy will never be the same!!!(was that a girly giggle???)

Thanks again to all for the Grand Eye Opening...

T

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HighWater
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Reply #25 June 20, 2008 8:27:41 PM
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As Kzinty said, there's nothing as satisfying AND pacifying as setting the galaxy ablaze, without firing a shot. Setting the whole galaxy up against eachother is a fun business and it buys you valuable time while you pick your first target. Just make sure one party doesn't get too much of an upper hand. (A little upper hand is fun, or the end game a.k.a. clean-up time will be boring.)
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