i've got like 500 sins games (including beta), do i now have the bigger e-peen?

I mean is ur post supposed to be an argument or what?
Would it mean that if u beat someone who says LRM are OP it isnt true?
The result of a single 1v1 wont tell u anything about the balance of a specific unit, so pls stop showing us ur virtual peen and if u rly want to game vs me (Leinad) or anyone else of us we are all the time on IRC.

I'm just angry at the amount of crying about something that isn't imbalanced. I'm not angry at one person in general. The amount of misinformation flying around is crazy. Flak will beat LRMs in a cost effective scenario.

And as far as my "e-peen" I don't care what someone thinks of me. But the whole lrm thing just irritates me to no end. And I haven't used IRC in like 10 years. Maybe if I get it working again I will.

And I don't like the idea of handicapping myself for a challenge ._. I mean I understand what you're saying, but that just goes against my nature, I use what I feel is best for each map/team. Before that had a lot of varieties, but now there are less, the only time I get to go vasari in a team game is if we have a TEC pooling me

and no it's not an argument. It's a fact that flak will kill more than enough lrms to make up the cost, they're so efficient against LRMs that you'll be able to beat him, and then when he comes back with light frigates have an lrm for each one. And then while he tries to counter me the flak which are a harder counter to LRMs than frigs are to a flak I'll win. People don't know how to use all the tools available to them and cry nerf a unit that isn't imbalanced drive me insane. Anyway, continue here with your discussion I'm gonna be busy for 5 hours, probably won't be able to respond tonight untill after that.

I'm right on the money here. From my point of view, you and others who think like you are clueless. I don't care about Korea because I'm not from Korea. If I wanted to play Starcraft, then I'd go play Starcraft and not Sins. I don't want to play Starcraft and I want to play Sins. You want Sins to become more like Starcraft so you can be happy and that makes me unhappy. You competitive/hardcore/elite/1337 players are:

1) the first to find a cheap strategy (like long range missile spam), the ones who use it the most often, and the last to stop using said cheap strategy

2) always complaining about what you perceive to be an imbalance because it always caused you to lose, not simply getting beat by someone who outplayed you (heaven forbid you actually admit a defeat!)

3) created the whole quit and/or disconnect (in older games) multiplayer game debacle because you couldn't have your egos harmed by an extra loss tallied against you and had to abuse a feature meant for longer, persistent games enjoyed by a number of people and/or friends

4) want to complain, complain, complain until you get your way and we'll have glow-in-the-dark ships, every unit being a counter to another unit, every ability being identical, no crowd control units or abilities, limits on how many of a given unit can be built so every fleet is composed of the same identical ships in the same numbers, ships gimped so badly that a paper cut would destroy them, and a stats system so you can run around with little merit badges that specify your rank of captain, general, admiral, etc. and denigrate anyone else who doesn't rank high enough or doesn't share your views

5) the first to wip out the word "troll" and cry when someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't share your views, or doesn't cater to your every whim because you must have gaming perfection or else the product isn't finished or polished enough until it fits your specific, narrow-minded ideals on the way things should be.

The competitive/hardcore/elite crowd has ruined games from Battlefield and Unreal Tournament, to Command and Conquer and Rise of Legends. I've been around the block. I didn't start playing games when the Xbox came out. While you were in diapers I was playing the first incarnation of Pong, the original Atari Grand Prix, and the original Paper Boy. Things never used to be like they are today with people bellyaching about anything and everything until the horse is beaten so dead not even the best forensics team in the world could identify it. Let's talk about legitimate issues, yes, but not this way and not over and over and over again until we've changed the game to satisfy Joe, then John, then Bob, and back to Joe again.

I've been out of the thread but I had to quote this. It's ironic that people would call OTHERS 'elitist' (even terrible players like myself) but not this guy. 'Half RTS and half chess'? No, sorry buddy, it's an RTS. All RTSs have chess-like attributes, and they're all massively different. But remember, *I'm* the elitist.

Even more ironically, his post was another worthless e-peen post with no actual examples or information provided. 'Na uh it's balanced' is just as worthless as 'zomg imba'.

Boxox, there are pretty clear descriptions of some issues on the forum. Why would adding 'oh and I changed x to y and it was better' add any weight to it? In any case, I think the thread has moved from 'What Brad said about his focus' to 'zomg people who think about game mechanics are teh failz'.

Bugger, I can't edit after someone posts.

ZJBDragon has a damn good point about the dangers of balancing. I touched on it earlier, but his examples of other games are right on. Every unit SHOULDN'T be able to do everything: each faction SHOULD have a preferred method to fight, because their units aren't universally capable. If you lose because you do something that doesn't work, that isn't necessarily a balance issue at all, particularly with factions like Advent that require a different sort of play.

Counterstrike spent a decade constantly rebalancing guns because people complained. Complaining isn't valid: only facts are, which is why Brad has no time for simple 'zomg Advent teh suckz' threads.

I think high level players are a great resource to the game community, however, this expertise is not great enough to escape the law of unintended consequences. Nobody knows anything from people just typing about it, a change is only known to improve the game once other (potentially better) high level players have pulled it apart. I don't think Brad is going to run this based on who has the biggest forum ego or who can create the biggest pile of forum tears or rate ideas based on who has the most wins. Put the work in, don't expect IC to troubleshoot and test their way through every idea anyone thinks up, use that clan social network and expertise to work on something useful.

Does that sound reasonable to you?

man i wish i could delete my own posts.

Ditchdigger, thank you. I couldn't have said it any better. I'm just a casual gamer (a noob even - I still don't know what all these cap ship capabilities are and how they work exactly) and just want to have some fun playing this game online.

My first couple of online games (played over the last week or so) were actually just that: fun. Yesterday I joined a "noob only" game and had a blast playing a balanced game where we each built up our empires and started forming alliances and fought big, long battles.

I joined another game today expecting just that again, and instead got owned by an LRM-rush within 20-25 minutes. I had only one planet and one asteroid and just got blasted to pieces.

I don't mind losing a game. I've been playing computer games for ages (I was around in the Commodore Amiga 500-times, if anyone remembers those) and I'd like to think I can learn from the experience if I get beaten. But it has to be fun, and this wasn't. Even though I tried to hang on for a few more minutes I pretty quickly realized how hopeless this was.

So I quit the game. Now, the game was over after about a half an hour instead of an hour of two. And instead of a strategically interesting game with lots of empire building and fleet maneuvering all I got was frustration. I never got beyond my home base.

That goes against everything this game is supposed to be about.

You were probably being sarcastic when saying "go-go", ditchdigger, but I do really think that Sins is a great game. My first few online games against fellow noobs showed me just how much fun it can be if your mindset isn't "I have to win as quickly as possible at all cost and maximize my build strategy".

My hat is off to Frogboy and all the developers of Sins. You really did do a great job, and you deserve the praise.

But I'll probably only play against people I know and avoid those who just want to add another win to their list in the least amount of time possible. And I will indeed quit any game with anyone who has that attitude. My time is just as precious as yours and I'm not in the business of catering to the "fun" of exploiters while I get my ass kicked.

Ditchdigger106 (reply #89) :




Right on the money ! You have just described 99.9% of the people who have purchased SINS : possibly well over 200 000 units sold at this time (17 March) ... which equates to millions of $$$ of revenues.

It doesn't take a M.B.A. degree, then, to understand that Ironclad & Stardock are very well aware of the casual gameplay preferences of the « vast majority » of their customers ...
and that, consequently, IC & SD have little interest in « catering » to the extreme, special needs of the 0.1% « elite ».

Reply #90, by dakdak77, illustrates why IC & SD must not optimize the difficulty of the game to cater to the tiny hyper-competitive minority.

Pnakotus, are you replying directly to me in your post? Because you're putting words in my mouth that I never used in just about every paragraph.



Who said I don't care about what I'm doing? I've played quite a few single-player games to learn how Sins works, but it's not all in the manual. For example, the manual doesn't tell you much at all about the special abilities of the cap ships, so you'll have to learn while playing.

But one of the reasons I bought this game is because of the MP aspect. I like the challenge that playing against other humans gives me, but it has to be a fair challenge.



Again, that's not what I said. I never said I don't want to win, or that others don't want to win. I said I'd want to avoid those who just want to add another win to their list in the least amount of time possible. I'd like to use all the options in this game to their full potential and you just don't get that chance if you get crushed in 20 minutes.

Look, if I want instant gratification, I'll play a game of Counter-Strike, where each round only lasts 3 minutes max. It's a tactical game: meant for the short term.

When I play Sins, however, I want to do what the game is about - build an empire, form alliances with other players, build up my fleets so that we can fight epic battles, and so on. It's a strategy game, and "strategy" inherently means that you need to take time and think about what you're doing.

How is it strategy when you're re-using the same way to crush your opponents in 20 minutes game after game? And, even worse: how is it fun for the other players involved?



Re-read my post. I never said that the casual method of play was 'better'. Just more fun.

What's the point of a strategy game if you can't actually use strategy? All I was doing in the game I mentioned was building ships as fast as I could to try to stop the onslaught that was brought on me before I even really got started doing all the things this game has to offer, like colonizing planets, researching techs and different ships, building up defenses, even scouting the whole system.

In the end, just trying to get a quick win will drive many players away. It certainly made me re-think my initial idea of joining any open game (expecting a fun competitive game instead of just a game of "I'll kick your ass in 20 minutes and move on to my next opponent to repeat the process").

How long do you think you'll be playing online in Sins FFAs if someone did that to you all the time?



Just where in my post did I insult someone? And where did I say I don't want to invest time?

You know, all I'm trying to say here is that this hypercompetitiveness of some players is not a good thing for the game in general. Most casual players will just quit online play altogether after a few frustrating 20-minute defeats, or we'll suddenly see an abundance of "friends only" password-protected games where you don't get the opportunity to meet people who want to play just like you and actually have fun doing it. The only open games will be started by game exploiters and no one will join them - except unsuspecting new players, who will quit in disgust after a few games like that.

And I care enough about Sins to take the time and write about that in these forums.

I'm quoting Carbon016 from another thread:

It's funny because if the map is small enough for that to work, against a good TEC player... LOL HAVE FUN WITH EMBARGO.

Reply #99, by Habadacus, is « spot on » ...

(excluding the use of the word « p***y »)