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Lestat420
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Swift Boat Vets Are Not Lying

August 20, 2004 1:55:10 PM from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
The charge that the Swift Boat Vets are paid off by Bush and his people is so laughable I cant believe anyone would make themselves look so foolish as to suggest it. The SBV consists of over 260 decorated Vietnam Vets, in order to find that many bribe recipients you would have to approach at least twice that many because not everyone would accept, and out of the 400 or so people that would have been approached not one is willing to to come forth in the media proclaiming that they were offered a bribe from the Bush campaign? the thought is ludicrous! The fact that Kerry will not even come close to answering the charges levied by the vets and instead trashes them and the people that fund them, is even more proof that he has something to hide
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Lestat420
psychx
Join Date 01/2004
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Reply #1 August 20, 2004 2:11:12 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

What about George Elliot, Kerry's commanding officer in Vietnam?  He was in the ad.   Didn't he go back on signing an affidavit that claimed Kerry shot someone in the back.  He first stated that, then he filed a second affidavit claiming it was a mistake that he knew he made when he signed it... "George Elliott (Globe account): It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. I'm the one in trouble here. . . . I knew it was wrong . . . In a hurry I signed it and faxed it back. That was a mistake."


here is the Link

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Lestat420
Lee1776
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Reply #2 August 20, 2004 2:12:00 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Lestat420 let me add this.

It's not against the law for someone to contridute to the SBV and the RNC or moveon.org and the DNC. If that was true then Mr. Soreos and Mr. Moore would be in jail by now because they have contributed 10 times as much to Moveon.org.

As for the request for Bush to call the SBV to stop the adds, he has already ask for all third party adds to stop and has condemned them.
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Lestat420
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Reply #3 August 20, 2004 2:17:53 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Even IF the Vets are telling the truth ( Which I am certain they are not, or at least are ignorant. ) it's not like BUSH'S army record is any better.

At least Kerry was IN Vietnam.
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Lestat420
cwarsh
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Reply #4 August 20, 2004 2:32:45 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Despite the fact that they are completely lying... I believe John McCain put it best:

"I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War."
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Lestat420
matt07
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Reply #5 August 20, 2004 2:40:04 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
It seems hard to argue that the swift vote vets aren't lying because their leader, Thurlow, got his medals for coming under fire in the same instance that he said John Kerry didn't. Also, all of John Kerry's crewmates say that the SBV allegations are false. This group isn't bribed, they're just conservatives who want Bush in office again and see this as a good way to hurt John Kerry. They're not directly part of Bush's campaign, they just get lots of money from Republicans. And Bush didn't condemn this add, he made a vague reference saying he didn't support the independ 5/27 attack ads. John Kerry condemned a Moveon.com add criticizing Bush's military record, although nothing in that add was false. Bush refuses to condemn the swift vote veteran because they work to his advantage, even though they're a conspiracy on par with those people a year or two ago who said that America had never been to the moon.
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Lestat420
psychx
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Reply #6 August 20, 2004 2:48:57 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

they just get lots of money from Republicans


Specifically "Bob Perry, a Houston home builder, initially contributed $100,000 to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and recently gave another $100,000. Perry has given millions of dollars to GOP efforts over the years, including $46,000 to Bush's gubernatorial campaigns in 1994 and 1998. He gave $2,000 to Bush's re-election campaign this year, records show. Seven of the 10 initial financial contributors to the veterans group have given to Bush's campaign this year, according to PoliticalMoneyLine."

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Lestat420
cybernigel
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Reply #7 August 20, 2004 2:55:38 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
SBVT a Ship of Fools

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2004/08/19/politics/campaign/20040820_SWIFT_GRAPH.html">

Check out the Bush admin lies:

"The President deplores all the unregulated soft-money activity," McClellan responded in a briefing today with reporters.
"We have been very clear in stating that, you know, we will not -- and we have not and we will not question Senator Kerry's service in Vietnam," he said.

It's Karl Rove's group for crying out loud!
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Lestat420
Deference
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Reply #8 August 20, 2004 8:58:27 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
This is the third forum that has sprouted up supporting S.B.V.T. .This is a tiresome duty knocking down houses of cards attempting to be built in shadows. It is illustrative of how powerful propaganda and the repeating of a lie can be.

In fact, it is difficult to argue that the group is lying as they have offered almost no actual "truth" or accusation besides the fact that they feel Kerry acted dishonourably by coming home from Vietnam, forming a veterans group against the war and spoke out against the way the war was being conducted.

Dr. Louis Letson has lied about being the doctor who serviced Kerry and has provided false information by claiming that Kerry lied about his Purple heart. Thurlow, who stated that Kerry was not under fire when he gained the first purple heart had to eat his statement when it was found that he was awarded the bronze star for an act he committed during the same day and time when he claimed that the group of Swift Boats were under fire. (oops, matt07, I see you've also contributed this info.)

This subject has made it's way around the boards quite a bit, I'm weary of seeing this shtick come up over and over again. Either people are honestly missing it or they are insidiously and cynically attempting to live up to Herrman Goerring's axiom, "If you repeat a lie loudly and repeatedly, it becomes the truth." It is either that or the people propagating this lie are some of it's first victims.
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Lestat420
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Reply #9 August 20, 2004 9:25:05 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Honestly folks,
They are both politicians and veterans.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT!
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Lestat420
Deference
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Reply #10 August 20, 2004 9:31:34 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Honestly folks,
They are both politicians and veterans.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT!

...at least not anymore, now that some of us know the real "truth".
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Gideon MacLeish
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Reply #11 August 20, 2004 9:32:50 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Honestly folks,
They are both politicians and veterans.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT!


Finally, the voice of reason.

My conclusion: they both suck and it has nothing to do with what they did or didn't do 30 years ago.

'nuf said.
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Gideon MacLeish
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Reply #12 August 20, 2004 9:35:12 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
honestly, now, folks,
both politicians and vets,
no one gives a shit

ssg, you're slipping! lol
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Lestat420
kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #13 August 20, 2004 9:52:17 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

NO ONE GIVES A SHIT!


apparently that's not entirely the case.  according to the nytimes:


A CBS News poll found that support for Mr. Kerry among veterans has declined markedly since the convention, and some Democrats said they believed that the attacks had at the least slowed whatever momentum Mr. Kerry enjoyed after his convention. 

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Lestat420
Deference
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Reply #14 August 20, 2004 11:03:10 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Now that the Swift Vets are starting to wash out, of course B&C supporters would like bygones to be bygones...
(ed. note - deference will be at the St. Louis Arch this Tue. at 4:20 kissing both Republican and Democrat butt whilst asking for forgiveness for being a complete smartass and know-it-all, thank you)
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Lee1776
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Reply #15 August 20, 2004 11:55:21 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Dr. Louis Letson has lied about being the doctor who serviced Kerry and has provided false information by claiming that Kerry lied about his Purple heart.


I have let this propaganda go for too long. I decided to do a little research. The first time I heard this I did not care about the SBV. It is just another 527 group. But when all four commanders of the Swift Boats in his squadron and a retired Doctor puts their reputations on the line I start to listen. All these men willingly put themselves in the Democratic bull’s eye of slim to say something. If it were only one, then I would think that maybe there is something behind them, but all four and the Doctor. People just don’t do something like this on a whim to lie. Would you?

All proof (even the Kerry a Camp doe not denies) shows that Dr. Louis Letson was on duty the day that John Kerry entered the hospital for his shrapnel wound. But the Kerry Camp says that his signature was not on the Sick Call slip.

1. If you go to John Kerry’s web page with his documentation while in service, this Sick Call slip is not there. In fact I spent three hours looking through the site and did not find any form of actually medical records.

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html

I have heard over and over that the only thing not posted was his physical fitness report. No that is not there either (and that's so private people say, hell a physical fitness report says how fast a person can run around a track in the Navy that is 1 1/2 miles). The only medical paperwork I found was his DD 1300 Report of Casualty. This is a form that give info for post mobilization stating that he was wounded with a general description of what location he received his wound and where on his body he was wounded. At no point does it say how bad the wound was. A doctor does not even sign this it is the administration officer at the out processing site who signs this.

If any of you can find more then this please let me know where. It’s all there to see for yourselves. But you talk about propaganda and you just follow someone else's word that it is there. All his medical records from Texas, Georgia, and Alabama where shown to reporters, to include some completed during the time the Democrats says he was AWOL. Even the Kerry Camp agreed that the records was released. This info can be found in an article from CNN (hardly a right leaning organization).

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/02/13/elec04.prez.bush.texas.records/

2. For your info, the Doctor does not sign Sick Call slips. Oohh no it can’t be true!!!!! I have been in the military for over 17 years and not once has a Doctor signed my slip. It is the Nurse, Corp man, Seaman, medic or Airman at the processing desk that signs it. How do I know that, because I pulled my own records. If you want a scan of my records I’ll send them to you and you can personally see that no officer or Doctor signed them. But just to get your goat, the doctor did sign my actually medic records (which the Kerry Camp has not released). Every visit is written on the sheet and it shows what medicine was given and what was the damage or problem and how bad it is, much like your medical record at your doctor‘s office.

3. If Kerry had received a shrapnel wound that was of anything importance he would have received what is called a PROFILE. These will always remain in one’s records because they say, after an exam/treatment, what restrictions a person would have for duty and how long. For a shrapnel wound that Kerry said he received one would have been required. The doctor is required to sign this PROFILE. Believe me I have seen hundreds of these shown me by my personnel in my career. By the way I had all the copies of ones I received on my desk as I searched Kerry’s records. I didn’t find one of those either. If John Kerry wants to prove this doctor wrong then he should show the copy of the PROFILE and the argument is over, not a Sick Call slip that just confirms that he arrived. Also if one person can find this mysterious Sick Call slip, it would say if Kerry received a PROFILE because it is required to note on that slip he received one and that alerts the command that he was wounded more then just a little.

Would I take the word of a Doctor over the word of a politician who has lied about throwing his medal away and where he was on that Christmas eve in 1968 to the US Congress. This is in front of Congress where people lives are at stake and international policy is created. You can not denie both of these because I’ve seen the tapes of the hearings. Even the Kerry Camp now says that it was in January and he may or may not have been across the boarder because there is no signpost there. This is after four versions of the story had been issued.

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20040812-090512-6687r.htm
http://www.instapundit.com/archives/017097.php

Have you guys ever thought that it is you who may be taking the propaganda for the truth?
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Lestat420
kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #16 August 21, 2004 12:14:05 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

But when all four commanders of the Swift Boats in his squadron and a retired Doctor puts their reputations on the line I start to listen. All these men willingly put themselves in the Democratic bull’s eye of slim to say something. If it were only one, then I would think that maybe there is something behind them, but all four and the Doctor. People just don’t do something like this on a whim to lie. Would you?


im sure youll find this interesting


here's a link to the ny times' very thorough investigation entitled "friendly fire: the birth of an anti-kerry ad" (august 20, 2004) by kate zernike and jim rutenberg friendly fire


and here's a link to a graphic (created for the article linked above) that illustrates the connections between the bush campaign and the swiftboat principals. connections

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Lestat420
Lee1776
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Reply #17 August 21, 2004 1:28:08 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
and here's a link to a graphic (created for the article linked above) that illustrates the connections between the bush campaign and the swiftboat principals.


I never talked about how the ads where funded did I? If you want to through stones what about all the DNC doners who give moveon.org money (Mr. Soroes).

But back to the point, even your second link referes to other people then doctors filling out paperwork. Next time in your in with the dentist or doctor you will notice how little they fill in paperwork. But Kerry still has not released his full records to the public, Check his web site I gave it above.
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Lestat420
dubz
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #18 August 21, 2004 1:28:18 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
First of all, someone being a veteran or not is not imporant. The SBV are the same people that bush used to screw mccain in 2000 and what the republicans used to do to max cleland. Its disgusting. SBV is not important and are stupid. Im glad mccain was against SBV, hes smart. Even though you see mccain supporing bush, its because he wants to be president in 2008. And that he is republican despite he likes kerry a lot more than bush.
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Lee1776
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Reply #19 August 21, 2004 1:35:12 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
First of all, someone being a veteran or not is not imporant. The SBV are the same people that bush used to screw mccain in 2000 and what the republicans used to do to max cleland. Its disgusting. SBV is not important and are stupid. Im glad mccain was against SBV, hes smart. Even though you see mccain supporing bush, its because he wants to be president in 2008. And that he is republican despite he likes kerry a lot more than bush.


You can attack the people who brought the witnesses together all you want thats not my point. Have you yet seen the records, the only records he has released have been a Sick Call Slip (which I still have no found or any witnesses to the them other then the Kerry Camp)?
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Lestat420
Deference
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Reply #20 August 21, 2004 1:38:04 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Of all the hot air blown by S.B.V.T. or Not So Swift Not All really Vets for distruth (as I like to refer to them) the only thing the've managed to come up with that halfway sticks is that Kerry pushed for a Purple heart while sustaining little damage. End of story. There's nothing else to them, it's time to, um, move on.


Keep clinging on, it's only gonna' get worse for S.B.V.T. .

More fun here:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040821/ts_afp/us_vote&cid=1503&ncid=2043
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Lestat420
kingbee
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Reply #21 August 21, 2004 2:08:15 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

I have been in the military for over 17 years


are you familiar with the casualty rate for those who served on swiftboats in coastal 11? 


 based on your years of experience in the military, how insane would one need to be to complete one's first tour of duty aboard a missile frigate THEN reup for a 2nd tour in which you volunteer to command a swiftboat  in coastal 11 in order to try and get a purple heart you didnt actually deserve? 

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Lestat420
Deference
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Reply #22 August 21, 2004 2:50:49 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
When it rains it pours, and I know a few Patrol Craft-Fasts that are getting stormed on:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/bush_swift_boats
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Lestat420
Baze0195
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Reply #23 August 21, 2004 5:31:51 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Wow people, I think this is all about personal bias. I mean, democrats could care less about Michael Moore/Moveon/Franken and the like, even when they show up at official Democrat fundraisers and the like. But when the other side attempts the SAME EXACT THING they cry foul. This is just a double standard. Theres been so much shit out there about Bush, it PALES in comparison to this little thing. Honestly, you didnt see anyone lift a finger about Moveon.org (And Kerry only "denounced" Moveon.org very recently to get rid of the SwiftVet ad, which shows its actually damaging him. Where was he months ago? Oh yea, thats right, he didn't mind it then since it was helping him).
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Lestat420
kingbee
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Reply #24 August 21, 2004 5:41:10 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Oh yea, thats right, he didn't mind it then since it was helping him


how did the swiftboat vets ad help kerry?

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Lestat420
Baze0195
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Reply #25 August 21, 2004 6:03:32 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
how did the swiftboat vets ad help kerry?


Moveon.org I was referring to. Moveon.org has been running anti-bush ads for months, yet kerry has only recently denounced them to try and deflect the swiftvet ads
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