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KarmaGirl

Join Date 03/2001

+118

Peace

is it just a concept?

I was meditating on the concept of "peace" during my morning commute. It's a great idea, isn't it? The world living in harmony. Mankind being civil. People existing without fear. Families building a home and feeling safe...living a life without violence or senseless loss.

Peace

It'll never happen.

There are signs up all over the place saying "Peace- No War!" What war are the referring to? One would argue that they are referring to the war in Iraq. US citizens are dying over there. But what about the US citizens that die in the US every day? It's war- just a different type.

US Casualties in Iraq 2005: 846
US Casualties in California 2005: 2,503 (but, they call it "murder" instead)

Peace

California is more dangerous than being in the war.... 3 times as dangerous. Why? At least the military recruits signed up knowing they could be placed in a war. What did the people in California do?

Peace

Do some other countries even try? Just read about the AIDS epidemic and the hideous reasons that it is spread (equates to murder..except by disease) in Africa. What about the military brutality (that's too nice of a word for it) in the Congo? Or, even the horrific population control methods enforced and involuntarily forced on women in Tibet?

Peace

I'll never see it in my lifetime.

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Zydor

Join Date 03/2006

+38

You will not if you are determined to find it, but you will if you dont look.

You are right, there will always be wars yaddie yadda, to dream otherwise is just that, a dream, its very regretably in mankinds competitive nature.

Instead of sleepness nights worrying about impending Armagedeon, sleep content that there are many good things in this world, you just dont get them reported. Crime is endemic in some areas thats for sure, but in the vast majority its not, and you can go about normal life (with sensible unintrusive precautions) without fear. Live in a crime ridden area, and for sure life is rough to say the least - but you will only hear about the bad bits, its the latter that boosts media circulation and revenue - not stories about "man strokes cat".

Callous, indifferent? No, not at all, just realistic - dont let the voluable few dictate your life, its what they want to satisfy their urge to be 'iconic'. Just enjoy the good things about life, there is a lot around, despite the media's sponsor telling you otherwise. Its very easy to be negative, the Media are past masters at that easy art form, it takes focus and effort to be positive in the whirl of negative media, but its worth it, life is ok if you look for it .......

Smile, be happy

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KarmaGirl

Join Date 03/2001

+118

sleepness nights worrying about impending Armagedeon

lol...uh, I don't think that has ever happened to me.

The point wasn't about *my* life. I live in a small community that has so little crime that it doesn't even have its own police force. However, you never know when some jerk with no value on life could step in and destroy your "peaceful" existence.

The article is about "peace", not "good in life". Sure, there are plenty of good things in life. I enjoy many each day. But "peace" just doesn't exist. The two are not the same.

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Yes, I think world peace is an admirable goal but not realistic. I remember during the first Iraq war how sad it made me that we hadn't learned enough to move beyond killing each other to solve our differences. I guess I have become more jaded since then.

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I doubt I'll see peace in my children's lifetime too and that's a horrible prediction!

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KarmaGirl

Join Date 03/2001

+118

Peace is plentiful, Angie.

Nah, I really don't see it. I see joy. I see happiness. But, I don't see real peace. All I have seen in my lifetime is more and more violence and less and less consequences. Then when we try to establish "peace" in a country riddled with horrible violence, we get people complaining that we aren't "peaceful". Can you have peace without violence? Is violence the only way to maintain peace?

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I think respect is the only way to have peace without violence.

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Random killings get a lot of press, but the reality is being a law-abiding citizen does much to reduce your chance of being murdered.

I think comparing CA murder stats to Iraq war deaths is tacky.

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Maybe we should compare CA murder stats to Iraq murder stats.

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Peace exists in some aspects of my life. As for "world" peace, well, I still have hope...even if it doesn't look so good right now.

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KarmaGirl

Join Date 03/2001

+118

I think comparing CA murder stats to Iraq war deaths is tacky.

Why is that? Is it because you are closer to the war? Is somebody who dies after they enlist in the military more of a tragedy than the kid who gets shot by a drive by shooting because he was close to the targets house? If we can't keep our own citizens from killing each other, then how will be ever "lead" any other country on how to be peaceful?

Can you tell me how comparing the war in Iraq to the war on our own soil is "tacky". I have a feeling that you say that because you are close to the war in Iraq. But, would you feel any different if a loved one died because of being shot in Iraq or if they were shot while walking down the street? Aren't both equal wastes of life? Are either "peaceful"?

Peace is where you find it. Where you make it. Even if only for yourself. You've created your little refuge from the world, enjoy it for all its worth because as you know, some people don't even have that.

I know what you mean with this, and it's true to a degree. But real peace, as in the sense of general peace on Earth, is just not going to happen. People have become too self serving and evil to be peaceful. Heck, you can't even drive to work without seeing some jerk being aggressive and dangerous.

I don't watch the News, either. I've never been a fan of reading the paper, either. Other than the occasional odd happening (like the guy who got bitten by his pet black widow and was found days later in his apartment being eaten by pet lizards and spiders) I don't pay attention to any news. Why? I live close enough to Detroit that I get Detroit news. It's absolutely barbaric what happens on a day to day basis, and so many of the victims are innocent bystanders.

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Karma, I would love to see the stats that show that most of the murders in CA are children getting caught in the crossfire.

Avoiding criminal activity greatly reduces your risk of being murdered.

I don't equate being a gang-banger with being a Soldier.

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KarmaGirl

Join Date 03/2001

+118

Karma, I would love to see the stats that show that most of the murders in CA are children getting caught in the crossfire.

I don't know the stats on California, but I know what I see on the news from Detroit. There isn't a single day that I have turned on the news and haven't heard about a kid being shot because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Hell, just the other day a little boy was killed while he sat in his living room playing Xbox. Bullet went through the window and killed him in a senseless drive by. And, where did I say that "most" were that? It was one example. That would be like saying "most" of military deaths are due to land mines. It's just one example of senseless death.

The big difference is that a soldier signs up to be in the military. I didn't sign up. Why? Because when you sign up, you do so with the understanding that you could go to war and die since that's a reality of the military. A soldier chooses to be there- a child has no choice of where their parents raise them.

Or, what about being killed during a robbery? Or being killed while being car jacked? These types of murders happen every day- they just happen more frequently in big cities due to larger populations. It's not realistic thinking to think that most of the crimes are because of being a "gang-banger" .

What about stories like these (two from todays Detroit News, one from LA):
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070809/METRO/708090444&imw=Y
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070809/UPDATE/708090452
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/crime/la-me-history8aug08,1,1620271.story?coll=la-headlines-california-crime&ctrack=3&cset=true

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Aug '45

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peace isn't something that happens out in the world. peace happens in your head. if you are lucky.

deep, huh?

i fight a war every day because i like to be angry. for some reason, it feels good to me, it feels right. but the one thing that i have just recently come to understand is that world peace is a pipe dream. i'm not really a bitter person, just being realistic too.

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Draginol

Join Date 03/2001

+137

Universal peace is impossible as long as one person has what another person wants.

Peace is easy to conceive as we sit comfortably in our culture of plenty.

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US Casualties in Iraq 2005: 846US Casualties in California 2005: 2,503 (but, they call it "murder" instead)PeaceCalifornia is more dangerous than being in the war.... 3 times as dangerous.

If you allow for the population difference there would have to be over 720,000 annual murders in California for it to be 3 times as dangerous as Iraq.

Brad's right, there will alway be conflict as long as there is compitition for resources.

Good news is this compitition will not always be there.

So unless we find some ET's to fight with there will eventually be peace on earth.

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Zydor

Join Date 03/2006

+38

Or, what about being killed during a robbery? Or being killed while being car jacked? These types of murders happen every day- they just happen more frequently in big cities due to larger populations

US population right now?? Say ..... 260million. Let say one person was murdered every minute whilst you slept at night. Lets assume you are sleepy head, call it nine hours - 540 dead. But, 99.9998% of the population managed to make it through the night. At the same rate throughout the year 197,100 dead, but 99.92% still managed to survive the "carnage" - albeit at that rate no politician would.

Stats can prove black is in fact white if you work at it. At the end of the day the US is a big place, any reporter / newsteam that cant find a murder needs firing, and drama/death sells papers and boosts viewing figures - sad though those facts are - so they go looking for trouble, and nearly always just show trouble. As a teenager most of us went through the "World Peace" phase actually believeing it could happen, solutions seemed so simple. Later we found out that human nature gets in the way, dang reality. Thats life, it will not change, you just need to change the mindset. If you look for trouble its easy to find.

My general take on life is "Plan for the worst, Hope for the best" - I get cheerfull about the 99.92% odds, not spend my life chewing fingernails about the .08% odds - even the bookies will not quote you odds on it, and if thats not a clincher, nothing is.

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Say ..... 260million

We passed 300m last October.

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Zydor

Join Date 03/2006

+38

oops

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KarmaGirl

Join Date 03/2001

+118

Good news is this compitition will not always be there.

So unless we find some ET's to fight with there will eventually be peace on earth.

I think you are quite wrong. We might not always be at war with another country, but we have plenty of war on our own soil. If we can't figure out how to keep people from killing each other over drugs, money, possessions, etc., then how will there ever be "world" peace. I'd settle for "country" peace, personally, but that will never happen, either.

Actual population for America in 2005: 296,410,404 Murders: 16,692 (that doesn't include violent crime or the people who lived after attempted murder). Violent crime was: 1,390,695. almost 1.4 million Americans experience violent crime in 2005. Sorry, but I don't care what the population is- that is still unacceptable.

If we can't teach our own civilians to respect life, then how are we supposed to help the rest of the world?

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There has never been peace of this little planet for as long as people have walked it. I don't believe it (violence) has grown worse, it just hasn't gone away. It's a fact of life and always has been.

In order to achieve true peace of the type you write about, one would have to change the core nature of the human being, and that's not likely to happen.

Honestly, almost all of the Man's achievements are a direct result of this same violent nature. Civilization itself came about largely due to people's need to band together for protection. Agriculture grew out this as they had to find better ways to feed these new large groups (tribes, cities, whatever you care to call them). A huge part of our technology grew out of finding better ways to defend ourselves and kill the 'other guys'. In one manner of thought, if we weren't violent by nature we could very well still be living in Stone Age conditions and wouldn't be having this 'conversation' in cyberspace.

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I see this article as questioning the peace that many seem to use as the foundation over how we, as people, deal with the problems of the world. Every time someone complains about how a country treats its citizen, for example, the complaint is based on how the world should be, at peace. It’s never about how it can be based on the reality of life, as best as it can be. In other words to accept that the world is never gonna be perfect.

As Draginol put it, as long as someone wants what someone else has, there can never be that peace Darmagirl speaks of on this article. But all of our complaints are basically based on the idea of the same peace that Darmagirl speaks of but is not possible. (Theoretically speaking) When someone says they want everyone to live in a house and a statistic is done to see how many people don’t live a house and come to find that 5% of the population does not live in a house. There will be an outcry based on this peace (universal happiness) Darmagirl speaks of. But what if these 5% don’t live in a house by choice? What if they like sleeping outdoors, on the streets, in a hotel or apartment? Because of this there can never be peace because someone will never be happy, even if they want to live outside a house someone will complain we have 5% of our population not living in a house and something needs to be done.

I think there are 2 kinds of peace:

1) The one Darmagirl is talking about. A world were we all get along, no wars, no selfishness, love and joy. Like something out of that Star Trek episode where they went to a planet where everyone was happy, they all lived to make each other happy (by any mean) and crime barely existed. A utopia you can say.

2) Peace from within. A peace that satisfies you. Where it’s good enough and it makes you happy enough. I believe basically what LW was trying to say.

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Zydor

Join Date 03/2006

+38

that is still unacceptable

I dont deny it, but your odds for surviving murder just shot up to 99.994%, and your figures mean 99.53% dont suffer from violence. As for the rest of the world, you dont want to know the odds out of 6.7Billion.

I understand where you are coming from, but mentally falling on a sword over it is not going to resolve it, it just means you waste your existence in a cloud of depression. We should not ignore it, thats for sure, but by the same token you are allowing the morons who cause it all to gain even more from it - your unhappiness.

You cant solve the worlds problems, never happen, just give it your best shot and accept that some things can never be solved no matter how deep the feeling on it. Be happy you are one of the 99.53%, and be content you are one of those rare people who really do care.

Just dont wreck your own life doing it ....

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KarmaGirl

Join Date 03/2001

+118

There will be an outcry based on this peace (universal happiness) Darmagirl speaks of. But what if these 5% don’t live in a house by choice?

Not exactly a comparison. Do any of the people who have been murdered (either on US soil, or in war) do so because they chose to? Being homeless may be peaceful to some people. Being murdered, or being a victim of violent crime is never peaceful.

1) The one Darmagirl is talking about. A world were we all get along, no wars, no selfishness, love and joy. Like something out of that Star Trek episode where they went to a planet where everyone was happy, they all lived to make each other happy (by any mean) and crime barely existed. A utopia you can say.

First, you are confusing my with Dharmagrl (we're not quite the same )

I'm not talking about Utopia. I am talking about the fact that you can live the most peaceful existence, not harm anyone, yet some ass who has no value on life can step in and ruin it. Until humans become more civilized, then "peace" will not exist. On a World view, if we can't even become more civilized here in the US, how are we to expect the less civilized countries to quit killing each other?

but mentally falling on a sword over it is not going to resolve it, it just means you waste your existence in a cloud of depression. We should not ignore it, thats for sure, but by the same token you are allowing the morons who cause it all to gain even more from it - your unhappiness.

This article has nothing to do with my life or mental state. I can assure you that the people who actually know me know that I am happy with my life and the way I live.

I'm starting to feel like people think it's "OK" that human nature is so violent. OK, maybe that's the way it will always be. If so, it just proves that "peace" is just a concept.

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Zydor

Join Date 03/2006

+38

it just proves that "peace" is just a concept.

In an absolute sense of absolute peace and perfection, Frankly yes, there will always be "violence".

That doesnt mean to say its "ok" to be violent, nor that people accept its "ok", because it sure isnt. Just because someone pragmatically accepts that violence to one degree or another will always exist, does not mean they wouldnt like peace, desire it, and fight for it. Not to do so would be heading for Armagedeon.

Its just a simple fact of life - wishing for something dont make it so, doing does, and even then it may not happen.

Its Life - anyone clinging to a High School concept of World Peace is going to meet those nice young men in their clean white coats pretty quickly ....

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