Racism will always exist, it will just evolve to find new divisions and differances that we will precieve as something to bias or judge by.

Keep telling yourself that if it helps, but we still have a long way to go...

Wether it be evolution or something else, humans certainly aren't reaching their full potential fighting eachother.

You have a point, and i will admit that i tend to react to racism with racism. In other words, i am not racist until somone else looks at me as a 'white guy' or a 'western hethen'. When somone looks at me like that, guess what, i look right back! Perhaps not the most constructive attitude around but thats the way i feel.

As you Americans put it, 'don't step on me'.

I'm not willing to accept this, and I think that overcoming it is our great hope. If we can learn to see each other as individuals it becomes harder to make decisions that result in other's deaths. I truly believe that we are seeing some of this today. The information we get on a daily basis about Iraq is making it hard for the American public to accept staying there, and rightly so. We can see that our actions are causing harm, and we wish to end that. I think that is an enlightened view, and morally correct. The problem with that is that can be viewed as weakness. Weakness can open the door to another 9/11 style terror attack. So, possibly, by trying to do the right thing we invite our own destruction.



Here is a thought that will spark some debate...

What if this is a form of social Darwinism, a way that we evolve? Just as the strongest animals reproduce more, thus strengthening the species, this could be a way that we test the relative strength of our cultures. Not conciously, but in a way that we are driven to.

Think about this - the religious fanatacism we see as the Muslim sects tear each other apart are very similar to Europe in the 16th & 17th centuries. Europeans got over that (read: evolved) in the 18th century. Not perfectly, but it got better. It is still getting better. So, Iraq is a couple of centuries behind us.

This does not mean good or bad. It is just a measure of creation of wealth, of the ability of each individual to achieve his/her potential, and other things. But by any measurable standard that I can think of (I could be wrong - it's late and I'm getting tired) we are a superior culture. The fact that individual citizens in the Islamic world are attracted to our way of life could be a sign of this. Left unchecked they would Westernize. Only their governments can hold them back.

Does this mean we are better or "good", in a moral sense? No, I'm not saying that. Nor was Cro-Magnon man "better" Neanderthal man. But, eventually, one evolved more than the other and won the Darwinian contest. The same thing could be true, here.

I expect that you will all have differing opinions, Marcus in particular, but maybe Stormbringer will have my back. Comments?

No, I think what he feels is fear. A religious/ethnic group, Islamic fundamentalists, have said that all American, indeed, all non-believers, should be destroyed. If that's not racist, I don't know what is.

I think Mystik's response is appropriate, and one of the root issues of this problem. How can we be thoughtful and act in an enlightened way when we are being threatened?



I personally try very hard not to subscribe to the "nuke Iraq now" idea, but it is hard not to fight fire with fire. If Mystik is a racist, then what is Osama Bin Laden? Or the Iranian president with the name I can't spell? Or, really, the Israeli government?

Anytime we point a finger at another group, close our eyes, and yell "We are good and you are bad!", that could be racist. It is very small-minded to define an "us" by defining a "them". We should be trying to find a "we". You too, Marcus. Play nice.

Marcus forced Kryo to lock another thread recently from attacking Danilost and calling him racist too. Marcus is one of those people that think calling somone a racist will win any argument.

No please don't, I will retire from this thread and never say a word
Please mysticmind, dont use the thought police, i cant sope with facism

I did say sorry mystic bully mind.

Sorry if i gave the impression of dignifying racism, the whole point to my original argument is that society tends to focus on combating 'white' racism (which is a good thing) but forgets about non white racism (which is a bad thing).

My second point merely illustrated how i react to racism against me and i clearly stated that my reaction is not a very constructive thing.

Sorry marcus, Actually i posted before seeing your haughty apology

and that was the racist one if I'm not mistaken/

please back off some more cause i haven't seen an argument worth listening to.

Huh, ya think? Read your own posts if you want to read arguments not worth listening to.

I will make it easy for you to understand, my comment on the way i react to racism towards me was not actually a point of an argument that i am trying to win or loose, it was just a fact about the way i react. If i was to tell you anything else then it would be a lie.

mysticmind, Imho you are not worthy. if you think this an insult, then i suggest you read all your posts again.

Sorry to overlook your post, you are right of course. I do not know if Marcus is a racist, i do not think he understands how serious a thing it is to call somone racist, that is what gave me the impression he might be quite young?