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Love, Missiles, and Child Pornography

EmperorofIceCream

Join Date 09/2004

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Love, Missiles, and Child Pornography

Or, why there will never be an end to the Israeli war against Palestine

So that I'm not accused of misinterpretation (deliberate or otherwise) nor of letting my fondness for underdogs run away with me, here is the link to the article in which I found this image of childhood 'innocence' gone awry (Link).

In an effort to ameliorate the abomination thus exposed the journalist in question writes: "[...] the children would not have seen images of dead Lebanese as these kinds of images are not broadcast in Israel, suggesting the children were probably acting with some ignorance about the devastation the missiles were causing."

But the 'parents' who incited their children to do this were not. No American news media has published this image, nor commented on it, nor will any American news media ever do so. There is no room in their simple-minded, simplifying commentaries on the conflict for such a thing. And besides, it might make the Israelis look bad.

Take a look at what your tax dollars are supporting, America: the corruption of racial hatred and war, handed on to the next generation of Israeli cannon-fodder while doting parents grin in the background.

Enjoy - after all, you paid for the missiles.

politics

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PANTS: I have an opinion.

MONKEY: I have a different opinion.

PANTS: You're dumb!

MONKEY: You're kinky, and you debate like a small child.

PANTS: I'm creatively insulting you! And I have some ideas.

MONKEY: Your ideas are wrong. And I have no comment about your insults.

PANTIES: Honey, you're drunk. And your creative insults are wasted on these simple sober folk. Try more "fuck you" next time.

Enough, I say. Let the cycle of violence end!

Emperor of Ice Cream, how have I wronged you, that you should treat me so?

Please tell me, so that I can make whatever amends you demand, and we can get back to an exciting debate about ideas instead of this pointless insult-fest.

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Foreverserenity: I think there's a huge difference between telling your children that their father is away on the other side of the world fighting in a war, and telling your children that their big brother is dead because someone fired rockets on his school during recess.

TW, would you feel differently about teaching your children about war, if someone started launching rockets across the Mexican border into your living room at dinner time?

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Since TW has made it clear she is done here, I feel quite comfortable in offering this sentiment to ya in her stead.

Whoops, guess I missed that in all the excitement. I see also that she avoided the question last time, so my asking it again was probably pointless anyway.

Fuck you.

Figures. I offer to make amends, but the empty hatred just keeps on coming.

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Hatred is never empty. Trust me, I've blighted lives with it. Of course, it has to be real hate and not the pussyass resentment that substitutes for it nowadays.

Real hate can kill.

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So according to Texas Wahine, because I'm not a parent, I'm not allowed to agree with any parents except parents that agree with her.

And according to the Emperor of Ice Cream, he's bringing no real hate to the table (but O! he could if he wanted to, mind you), only pussyass resentment.

But according to Little Whip, that's okay because the whole conversation was just a game anyway.

So now that we've gotten that all cleared up, a few things about EoIC's "hypocrisy" argument:

First, he's going to have a hard time making it stick, since all the documented evidence points to Israel and its allies having a clear policy of not targeting civilians, and their words and deeds whenever it happens have been consistently to apologize, investigate, and punish. In order for EoIC to prove hypocrisy, he'd have to produce evidence that there is a secret, official policy to target civilians. Good luck with that.

Plus, in order to make the hypocrisy argument really worthwhile, he'd have to draw a moral equivalence between the IDF and Hezb'Allah. This would also be hard to do, since Hezb'Allah really does have an official (and public!) policy of targeting civilians. And far from apologizing, investigating, and punishing, Hezb'Allah celebrates and rewards the targeting of civilians.

So there's no hard feelings, then? This has all been tongue-in-cheek, good fun, friendly internet debate stuff?

EoIC got to flail about comically, try out some truly epic flames, and ban a dissenter. LW got to support her sweetie and say "fuck you" and "tongue-in-cheek". BakerStreet and I got to float some counter-arguments and explore some interesting (to us) ideas. TW got to remind us all that only parents can have opinions about children in society, and that parents who disagree with her don't count. Everybody else got a little entertained and a little bored.

Works for me. I guess JU really is the best blog site ever.

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Except for Charles C, who gives up on any article longer than a dozen sentences or so, and has difficulty with "big words."

Since Charles C. has made it clear he is done here, I feel quite comfortable in offering this sentiment to ya in his stead.

Fuck you.

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To: Charles C

I'm not very smart but I still write a heck of a lot less than he does.

I agree. You're as dumb as a stump. And you do write a lot less than I do. And you use shorter words. That's because you're as dumb as a stump. And your point is?

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To: all the prima donnas and divas (other than little-whip and the inarticulate Charles C) currently flouncing on this thread -

Stop it. Or I shall spank you.

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To: foreverserenity

You have a simplicity and directness of language that I cannot approach and which I am learning to appreciate. Thank you for your comment

Simon, thanks. I speak the way I think, that's all.

[whistles at Stute's tongue lashing~~~~~ whew] You asked for it Stute!

You've been tongue lashed by the master!

While some folks can appreciate the creativity of your curses and insults, including myself, the average (and they are oh-so-average, aren't they?) participant on JU would be just as well served with a simple "fuck you."

LOL, that would be too easy, and a lot less enjoyable to read!

Foreverserenity: I think there's a huge difference between telling your children that their father is away on the other side of the world fighting in a war, and telling your children that their big brother is dead because someone fired rockets on his school during recess.

TW, would you feel differently about teaching your children about war, if someone started launching rockets across the Mexican border into your living room at dinner time?

So according to Texas Wahine, because I'm not a parent, I'm not allowed to agree with any parents except parents that agree with her.

STute, you're still talking the same shit. It's what we would say from my homeland, "same difference' meaning it's the same thing, nothing changes, 'six a one half dozen of the other'.

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fserenity, I've been developing my arguments in direct response to your counter-arguments.

But like EoIC, the more I dispute your conclusions and explain why I don't agree with them, the more you amuse yourself with trash talk and the less you actually think or discuss the issues.

But don't worry, it's okay, it's all tongue in cheek anyway.

Heck, the bomb-signing children and the dead bodies at Qana are probably all tongue-in-cheek, too, so feel free to stick to trash talk from here on out, if you like.

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Stop it. Or I shall spank you.

I "think" NOT!

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To: All who've so far commented.

Let's see. 1. The post is meaningless because the photo was staged. Whether or not it was staged the image still says something - it offers a different commentary on those who claim to be ultra-moral, meanwhile prostituting their children as images in a propaganda. And it's not the idea of child-prostitutes that bothers me. It is, once again, a demonstration of fundamental hypocrisy.

2. The post is meaningless because either I don't provide a moral equivalence to the actions of Israel/Hezbollah; or because none exists. I didn't provide it because I thought it was obvious. As I've said, it's hard to sink to the level of stupidity necessary in here for me to be at the level of the likes of stute. And calling stute stupid isn't really an insult - more of an apt description.

First, he's going to have a hard time making it stick, since all the documented evidence points to Israel and its allies having a clear policy of not targeting civilians, and their words and deeds whenever it happens have been consistently to apologize, investigate, and punish.

No they don't target civilians. They target people whom they have defined as not being civilians - usually by Gunship in the form of extra-judicial killings. Your argument is disingenuous because you, like the Israelis, have a shifting definition of 'civilians' - such that 'civilian' becomes anyone who is not immediately targeted but likely to be killed in an attack anyway. The other term for civilian in Israeli is 'collateral damage'.

Plus, in order to make the hypocrisy argument really worthwhile, he'd have to draw a moral equivalence between the IDF and Hezb'Allah. This would also be hard to do, since Hezb'Allah really does have an official (and public!) policy of targeting civilians. And far from apologizing, investigating, and punishing, Hezb'Allah celebrates and rewards the targeting of civilians.

Hezbollah has a policy of targeting all those it regards as combatants. That would include, from their point of view, every Israeli citizen - because in a democracy its the citins who are the seat of all poitical authority, legitimacy, and sovereignty. On such a definition there is no one who is not a combatant - except those who did not specifically authorize the Olmert government by voting for it.

The IDF often targets the families and associates of those whom it can't attack directly - frequently by levelling their houses. The equivalence in the types of acts carried out lies in this - they both illegitimately target those not directly involved in formal conflicts. The acts and the scale of them are different. But they are of the same type and work in the same way. And that, to me at least, is enough to establish the Israelis as hypocrites since they do the same things as those they condemn as immoral.

Your list of peoples who have waged horrific wars. The Aztecs, for example. The wars you refer to were described as 'Wars of Flowers'. They were essentially prolonged kidnapping-campaigns since their intent was to seize worthy victims for their religious practices. And they were conducted within frameworks of understanding that were consistent and coherent. In other words, there was no hypocrisy involved, and it's the hypocrisy of the wars of the West, too often characterized as the assumption of the 'White man's burden' - not the numbers killed or the methods used to kill them.

The same is true of the Mongols, who formally declared war on the entire West via their 'letters of submission to the European powers', which called on Europe to submit to the powers of the Mongols. Oce again, the framework of ideas surrounding the warss of the Mongols were coherent, consistent, and without hypocrisy. You concentrate on methods and numbers, I concentrate on frameworks of ideas and whether they succeed or fail to be consistent and coherent. The Israelis fail because they don't live up to the moral paradigm within which they claim, endlessly, to act.

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