then they should learn to speak the language of this country. I would expect no less myself if I moved to Brazil, Korea or Russia. I would learn the language and do my best to speak it out of respect for my new adopted country.

As you said yourself that's not easy for those who aren't schoolkids. Have you met a full citizen who cannot speak English whatsoever? Why should they have to speak broken English to each other when Spanish or Italian or Arabic or Japanese is so much easier?

And anyway, the country is enriched through a multilingual populace. It improves national security (a wider language base means a wider agent base) and it improves communicative efficiency, because borrowing of useful words from other tongues will become more common.

It's certainly nothing to fear unless you believe your children's development should be stunted by only teaching them English. You'll probably be dead soon (ie within the next 50 years or so), so there's no point worrying overly much about your generation's lack of language skills. The future is far more important.

" never said that. I think having traditions in one's own culture is great, and I love learning about other cultures. I have no problem with that even if they celebrate these things in this country. "

No, but rightwinger did, and yet you can't understand why I would react strongly to it?

"So you're saying what? We need to learn Arabic so we can learn to discuss with our Arabic neighbors? We need to learn Spanish and French as well so we can know how to ask for a towel in said language? "

No, but if you frequent areas that are predominately filled with people who speak spanish, it is irrational to stubbornly refuse to learn how to say "May I have a towel". Or you could call the front desk and have them ask.

"So you think that's the reason many don't speak a second, third or fourth language? Because they are bigoted and stubborn? Well in the school system I grew up in I was offered French and Latin. That's it. As you most likely know, the best time to learn a language is when one is young. I do not believe I was bigoted and/or stubborn because I cannot converse in another language. You're way out of line here Baker. "

So I am out of line for asking adults who live in a first-world, prosperous nation with education galore to learn a second language, and you are not out of line for expecting adults who come from impoverished nations to do so?

How much easier is it for you to learn a smattering of Spanish than it is for them to learn English? You certainly have a computer and access to the Internet, and therefore the free resources to learn how to ask for a towel. Do they? You can't take a few minutes a day to learn a second language, but they clean your toilet in the hotel for 8 hours, take care of their family, and still have the time and energy to learn English, no doubt.

"then they should learn to speak the language of this country. I would expect no less myself if I moved to Brazil, Korea or Russia. I would learn the language and do my best to speak it out of respect for my new adopted country. "

You'll find people in those nations, living with a much lower standard of living than you, already speak a lot of English. You'll find that when you ask for a towel in their hotels, they'll often understand what you are saying. They are much more accepting of people who bother visiting and migrating to their nations. Perhaps you should grant that respect to the people who fetch your towels.

Demanding that people educate themselves so that you can stay ignorant is sad, especially when those people are making your food, trimming your lawn, and picking your fruit. it's pretty hypocritical to laud how learning English is in their best interest when you at the same time admit that you encounter problem situations because you refuse to learn a little Spanish.

" Applicants exempt from this requirement are those who on the date of filing: have been residing in the United States subsequent to a lawful admission for permanent residence for periods totaling 15 years or more and are over 55 years of age; have been residing in the United States subsequent to a lawful admission for permanent residence for periods totaling 20 years or more and are over 50 years of age; or have a medically determinable physical or mental impairment, where the impairment affects the applicant’s ability to learn English."

Oddly, the reality stated here and elsewhere is that people have to have translators to be sworn in as Americans, so I'm not sure how you can really point to that. Most of our modern immigration junk goes back to the 1950's, too, when all those scary feriners were sneaking in with thier pinko communism.

Needless to say, I'm unimpressed with a nation that can't stomach declaring a national language and yet makes petty technicalities in the fine print to enforce it. Not that they do...

Again, I'll not bother imposing my wacko views on those enjoying their cultural protectionist banter here. I've expressed myself as about as well as I am able on my blog.

I'll just say here, as I have elsewhere, that never in American history have people been so pithy and dismissive of millions of people marching in the street in state after state. The visigoths weren't bad people, the Romans were just idiots.

No I agree with you Chak but that wasn't the point. The point was if I were in another culture I'd do my best to learn the language especially if I'm serving clientel. In order to serve and help another, I'd first have to be able to understand them.

I have two people here in my church that grew up in Korea. They cook Korean dishes often for us and tell us bits and pieces of the culture they grew up in. They are American Missionaries and do understand the language.

School children in Asian countries are required to learn English.

I agree with drmiler. When in Rome......

There's nothing "American" that's truly "American", but loyalty to one's country is loyalty to one's country.

So, you are saying what?

KFC correctly pointed out that having everyone speak different languages would not be conducive to victory on, say, a battlefield. That's very true. It's also not very effictive in business, emergency services and simple conversation. English IS, after all, the national language of America. Has been since 1776.

English is not our national language. The United States does not have a national language.Lots of businesses do quite well in the US not speaking a word of English. As to emergencies, I grant it may be "common sense" that we find a common language, but in the US it is but no means assured that language will be English.

But learn English, and don't coerce me into having to learn your tongue. Not doing it unless I want to. I'm not the one going to your country to live.

No one is coercing you, but it might help to break down cultural barriers and increase understanding if we attempted to learn some of the language of our neighbors. "Your" country is an interesting choice of words, suggesting that immigrants are not as "American" as you.

My point was mainly that I have yet to see all those "loyal American" Muslims (including Iraqis, who presumably came here to get away from the evils of Saddam and his thugs), who supposedly hate the way the Fundamentalists have taken their faith hostage, rushing out and lining up at Armed Forces Recruitment Centers. If they're so loyal to this, their adopted nation, and so hate the Fundamentalists, they should be camping outside the Centers like "Star Wars" fans at a theater, eagerly awaiting the opportunity to join in and aid the defense of their country and faith, like the Japanese-Americans did back then. But no, they sit idly back and watch utterly innocent people being executed by Fundamentalist thugs, and soldiers from their own nation, that are defending them, in reality, get killed, without lifting a finger.

Since you do not have the numbers and have not camped out yourself at recruiting stations (assuming you live in a predominately Muslim neighborhood) how can you say this? As it turns out, "loyal American WASPS seem to be having the same difficulty getting to the recruiting stations. In another sense, let me ask this, why would an Iraqi immigrant who has (to go with your scenario) fled Iraq for refuge here in the US deliberately put himself back in Iraq where he would very likely be high on the hit list of insurgents? My sense is they are doing about the same as you, earning a living and paying the taxes that enable other poor youngsters to go out there and be targets.

As to the cartoon quip, I didn't see a lot of American immigrants protesting this, a few perhaps, but most of those protests were in Europe and the Middle East.

Be well.

English is not our national language. The United States does not have a national language And you woould be incorrect in "assuming" this.

Technically, Sodaiho is correct. There is legally no official national language of the United States, although it is clear that English has served that role de facto from since before the establishment of the nation.

WIKIPEDIA:
Official language(s): none at Federal level; English de facto.

CIA FACTBOOK:
English 82.1%, Spanish 10.7%, other Indo-European 3.8%, Asian and Pacific island 2.7%, other 0.7% (2000 census) [No official national language cited].

English First is an organisation that exists to establish English as the official national language. Link. Its very existence suggests that English is not yet legally the official national language of the United States.

The language of a nation is usually the one printed on their "national" currency.

Your point that for all practical purposes (just another way to say de facto ) English is the main language employed in the United States is obviously correct.

So, you are saying what?

I'm saying that, if they want to be American, they should have loyalty to this country and no other. Increasingly, that is not the case. Read my posts above my last, and you'll get a clearer picture of my opinion.

English is not our national language. The United States does not have a national language.Lots of businesses do quite well in the US not speaking a word of English. As to emergencies, I grant it may be "common sense" that we find a common language, but in the US it is but no means assured that language will be English.

---Sodaiho

Technically, Sodaiho is correct. There is legally no official national language of the United States, although it is clear that English has served that role de facto from since before the establishment of the nation. WIKIPEDIA: Official language(s): none at Federal level; English de facto. CIA FACTBOOK: English 82.1%, Spanish 10.7%, other Indo-European 3.8%, Asian and Pacific island 2.7%, other 0.7% (2000 census) [No official national language cited]. English First is an organisation that exists to establish English as the official national language. Link. Its very existence suggests that English is not yet legally the official national language of the United States.

---Chakgogka

Your point that for all practical purposes (just another way to say de facto ) English is the main language employed in the United States is obviously correct.

---Chakgoka


Sorry, guys, but the above quotes are merely semantic arguments. The country was founded, officially, by English-speaking people. The Great Documents of our nation (Declaration of Independence, US Constitution) were written in English. This makes English the main language of the US.

Come on, Chak...... you're ususally better than this.
To debate that the fact English is (okay, UNOFFICIALLY; it was never made OFFICIAL, because it didn't need to be. The debate would have been carried out in English, after all, and that propbably would have seemed a little redundant to the fairly common-sensical Founders) the language of the US is like saying surrender, collaboration and accepting military help from countries they later spit on, undermine and backstab isn't the UNOFFICIAL political position of France. It's what they do, for crying out loud.

So, in fifty years or less (probably much sooner), will the UNOFFICIAL language of the US be Spanish?

they're coming here to live from somewhere else

So did your ancestors, didn't they?

Come on, Chak...... you're ususally better than this.

OK, I'll try and do better.
I don't want to comment now on the situation in the United States, a country that I have never visited and have no immediate plans to do so. We're lucky that we speak English, the new global language. I'm luckier than you, having just been appointed a professor of English at a leading Asian university.

My travels have shown me that we sometimes take this luck for granted. The stereotype of the American tourist (and sometimes British tourist) in a foreign country dealing with a waiter's incomprehension, by repeating their request in English, but shouting this time, is a cliche, but one that I have witnessed enough times to know the truth at the heart of it. Having the luck to speak the only language that (seems to) matter, we are notoriously bad at bothering with a second language.

Now, in my professional role as a language teacher I can tell you that some languages are harder to learn than others, but all foreign languages take years of study to master. The mistake that a lot of people are making here is to assume that the Mexican waiter who cannot understand your order is making no effort to learn English. In fact, this is highly unlikely; if true, it would be monumentally stupid. The most likely explanation is that the immigrant is somewhere on that great "English as a Foreign Language" learning curve - beginner, elementary, pre-intermediate, intermediate, upper-intermediate, advanced, proficiency. Getting through all that takes a lot of years, even for the most linguistically gifted. It may even take more than one generation. If English speakers (for all kinds of reasons) were not so notoriously bad at learning other languages, this would be obvious, but I think some of you really believe that everyone can learn English in a single semester of night school. Maybe a little civility and patience is all that is needed.