"as a fellow smoker who sees alcoholics dying on the road and getting into fights with a government sanctioned product, i believe it is a tad unfair..."

So we need another government sanctioned product for people who die on the road and get into fights?

The basic fact people overlook is that getting drunk is the abuse of alcohol, and millions of people use alcohol as a beverage every day without abusing it, without getting drunk For thousands of years it was the primary source of drink in most cultures and the world wasn't destroyed by alcoholism, and drunkards were still singled out as abusers.

On the other hand intoxication is the sole purpose of MJ. I see a huge difference. If I go and have a beer with lunch, no one accuses me of needing a buzz. If I go and smoke a doob, what other reason did I have? Call it hypocritical, but intoxicants are frowned upon, over and above their addictive qualities. When there is no other use beyond intoxication for a product, you'll have a hard time making people understand why it should be legal.

XX: My point was, beer is a beverage that happens also to be an intoxicant if used in excessive amounts. MJ is an intoxicant... period. No other use. If you abuse alcohol, you get drunk, if you use pot, you become intoxicated. There is a big difference.

Bakerstreet, what's the big deal if a product makes someone intoxicated? Why do you object to occasional intoxication so much? I know people who get drunk every weekend. Would you have as much objection to them as you do to someone who smokes pot every weekend?

And just because his argument doesn't address *your* objections doesn't mean its not an argument. You're saying it's not an effective argument *to you*.

actually sir,,,democracy isn't about getting 51% or any majority for that matter and then proceed to crush the minority opinion. if you think that,,,then i am afraid you need a civics lesson before attacking this discussion.

the whole keep it illegal to keep the bar low arguement is about the same as the "gateway" drug arguement. and both have been shown to not be true. whereas sometimes a small spike can be shown after a law change,,,long term, people settle down. and prohibition doesn't keep anything out of anyone's hands, it just lines the pockets of the sellers by allowing them to inflate prices. when i was your age, and still today, it was easier to find coke than pot any day.so even if we discount that and say availability is the same,,,millions more choose pot over coke every day.

legalizing marijuana won't make it easier to get folks,,,it's already easy. if your local dealer is out, you can order it online...and have it overnighted to your door.

thanks again for the kind words muggaz....

For those enjoying this article,,,please check out the "Can You Buy Pot On the Internet?" article i wrote,,,it's also on this blog under that title...if you liked this piece,,,you'll LOVE that one:)

XX: My point was, beer is a beverage that happens also to be an intoxicant if used in excessive amounts. MJ is an intoxicant... period. No other use. If you abuse alcohol, you get drunk, if you use pot, you become intoxicated. There is a big difference.

sorry,,,but you are really off the mark there,,,most people i know who smoke usually prefer a small amount at ta time,,,just like the people who enjoy a drink or 2 at home after work...they just prefer pot to booze. your assertion that pot instantly puts you "on another planet" is false. just like with booze, there are levels of intoxication,,,and don't kid yourself, even tho you may not be legally too drunk to drive, 1 drink does cause a certain level of intoxication.

what are the other uses of booze aside from getting intoxicated (regardless if that level is a light 1 beer buzz or a drunken stupor)???? hemp (which is the male version of pot, generally much less "intoxicating") has been shown to have many other uses and i'll put up the FACT that it is a renewable energy source that could almost instantly end our need for Arab oil to alchohol's ability to strip paint or cause fires.

Bakerstreet, what's the big deal if a product makes someone intoxicated? Why do you object to occasional intoxication so much? I know people who get drunk every weekend.

baker seems to not be able to distinguish people who enjoy a nice pot buzz vs what he has in his mind as a bunch of wasted, stoned hippies raping his daughter or something,,,if they are not too lazy...how he describes users just shows how distant he is from the actual facts. indeed, people have strived to "alter their conciousness" since the beginning of time,,,that desire is human,,,it isn't bad as the fundamentalist puritan christian crowd would like you to believe.

the way baker looks at people who enjoy pot reminds me of when i have sat in business meetings in the past, and when the topic of the grateful dead would come up...inevitably someone would comment about what "dirty, disgusting, filthy hippies " they were, not realizing they were speaking to one. and the "deadhead" in front of them had a nicer suit, better haircut and such than the person complaining.

of course, when the dead would come to town, news stations would go out and try to find the wildest looking hippie they could, ignoring the 10's of 1000's of normal looking people who enjoyed the music every bit as much as the dreadlocked, patchwork pants, petchoulli wearing freak they searched high and low for. i always figured that the john and jane six packs sitting at home would assume that everyone there was "like that guy" and from baker's comments and the rest of my own experience, i can say,,,yeah, i was right.

heh, a lot of the same thing over and over. I've known many people in my life that smoked pot, and no not all of them acted like Cheech and Chong, but I never knew anyone that wanted to smoke pot without getting high from it. I mean it is a silly argument, really. The equivalent of "Oh, yeah, we want to legalize pot, but we don't want to get that high or anything, just a little..."

Bakerstreet, what's the big deal if a product makes someone intoxicated? Why do you object to occasional intoxication so much? I know people who get drunk every weekend.

Intoxication is frowned upon universally, you overlook that? You can't be trying to say that one beer = one joint in the level of intoxication. You just take a puff and stubb it out? I think it is kind of telling that these conversations imply that everyone who drinks alcohol gets a buzz. Do you know how many billions of gallons are consumed of beer and wine worldwide? Intoxication is the aberation, the abuse of the substance. With MJ, even if you just want a 'little', it is the point.

Once again, back to the 'Democracy" thing. People don't want pot to be legal, period. We've had 50 years of this diatribe blown in our face, and guess what, we still don't want it legal. Make all the hemp will save the world rants you want, but in 50 years no one has been able to show enough proof of insipid arguments like " it is a renewable energy source that could almost instantly end our need for Arab oil" to make it palatable to legalize. , gah.

Come on. You rant against stereotypes and then you preach them. You act shocked that 'stoners' exist and pretend that the average person who smokes pot barely gets a buzz and is really wanting it legalized so they can save the earth with hemp. Just as stereotypical and dated as your 'dead head' analogy.

In the end, with all the ranting, the point isn't getting being accepted. If you can't make a decent point in 50 years, then maybe it isn't the world that is deluded.

Hey Bakerstreet,
( Imagine Tommy Chong dialect )
You know some of dat stuf dey sell dude, it only takes, like one puff, and you're stoned man,
toke on it more than once man, and you're like wastin' it.......

thank you for your thoughts baker,,,i disagree, but respect your view...as far as your 50 year arguement goes,,,it was legal for the 1000's of years before that...many of our founding fathers grew it, including washington and jefferson...historical documents were written on it and i think you would be surprised how many non lethargic folk out there smoke and do it responsibly.

take care:)