For example, if I can group planets into different control groups (Control Group 1, 2, 3, etc) and change the production wheel of each GROUP of planets it would save a TREMENDOUS amount of time in micro management. The problem right now with the production wheel is that it's ALL or ONE. So as a result to optimize play I have to change each planet's production wheel separately depending on the planet type.
I'd much rather be able to just change the production wheel for a CUSTOM GROUP of planets and leave the other planets unchanged.
This shouldn't be all that difficult to program in.
Also, not only will it save in micro management, it will also allow YOU and MODDERS to improve AI specialization. Once the concept of "Planet Grouping" is programmed in, you can specify how the AI will build up its worlds allowing the AI to specialize like a human.
THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE. With planet grouping, not only are you improving the AI but you're also significantly cutting down on micro management, killing two birds with one stone.
What I'd want is to be able to set individual planets production without entering the planet screens. To use the planet list page and also the planet queue to the right of the tactical map. I don't know if modding that is even currently possible??? Apart from being able to change the odd text/xml file I'm not a modder.
I get it your saying that you don't want a game that lets you optimize because you will.
lets take tactics out of the game. You micromanage planets, starbasez, and expand with a little of combat. Not really much. With ship building thrown in. A game can't. Stand on shipbuilding. If we take out micromanaging star wars and planets out. All you really do is expand, and that's not much of a game. That's why spore is such of a flop.
now how did we get hear. A lot of complaints of the economic wall in two. The game developers feal that a combination of approval and lowering taxes was to cheesy. Personally the economic was fine. If it was a large empire penalty then it was the best I've seen. As far as taxation and approval slider I thought it was realistic. Hears an option no taxation slider economics work pretty close to two with the approval buildings worth more. One of the problems is we can't. Agree on what makes a game. Personally I think micromanagement is part of the game making it fun.
as far as sliders I use global and local both. If you think that there is to much micromanagement then use only the global it will still work. I'm. Not saying the wheel system can't. Be improved. I like this system better than the focus system in two. I'm. Pro controlling taxes though. I think the wheel should affect production before you add building bonuses. What I'm. Saying is that if I build an economic building that should affect everything, but if I build research it should only affect research. The wheel would show me the total production, but only affect production before science, factories... I'm not saying the wheel system can't. Be improved.
but before we go accusing of him ripping you off we need to remind ourselves he is bringing up the subject. I don't. Do this everytime you ripp me off.
I think the question we ought to be asking is not "what's the best UI solution to micro-manage the percentage split so we can complete builds in exactly 1 turn" but "why isn't the computer doing this for us?"
Computers are quite good in doing mindless and repetitive calculations and tasks without getting bored. Make it do this stuff for me so I don't have to.
If the planet is not connected to an active yard or there's more production available than needed to complete the ship in 1 turn then automatically reroute the excess towards planetary improvements in the queue. If the planetary queue is empty or there's more production available than needed to complete the improvement in 1 turn then automatically reassign the specialization split so that the excess is allotted to creating research or wealth or pour it into a project creating influence or population.
Then the only setting for a planet I'd need to give is whether it should be a manufacturing, research, economy, culture, or population generator. And what's even better, I'd only have to set it once.
There are many times when I've wished for that because it would be a lot less hassle than the current system but I'm not convinced that's the answer. I would only consider using it if it worked perfectly, otherwise it would be just like the awful non optimal governor systems that games companies tend to put in for more casual players. It is still a layer of micromanagement that could be done away with, using the system I outlined without harming the game imo.
To be fair to Stardock the current system is probably fine for relatively inexperienced players to 4X games who play on tiny maps with about 5 planet empires. But for experienced Suicidal players who will micromanage to achieve the best results and play maps with not even that much planets 40 maybe the economies a nightmare at the moment. You can't get the best out of your empire by using the global wheel system that's why I NEVER use it and micromanaging every planet using an individual planet wheel is time consuming torture every turn the more planets you own.
Recent very successful strategy games like Europa Universalis IV and Civ 5 got rid of slider/percentage systems entirely that their previous iterations had and are better for having done so imo.
I don't get this. I keep trying, but it makes no sense to me. The game allows you to get down to detailed focus, I don't get that it "forces" you to do anything. If your gameplay style is such that it becomes no fun, then why are you doing it? If squeezing one more hammer or cutting off one more build-turn isn't a satisfying experience in itself, why bother? Part of me wants to say people need to own the responsibility for their own choices, but that seems awfully harsh and I don't want to be that way. Still, why is it Stardock's job to fix what you decide to do with their game? If they added two more decimal places to every numerical display, would that force you to micromanage to that new deeper level? I don't even know if that is a rude or realistic question to ask. That is how confused I am.
At times, I nudge the wheel to just the right place; at times, I slam it in one direction or another; at other times, close enough is close enough. I don't want to lose that range of choice just because another person thinks they are forced into something for reasons I cannot yet understand.
The issues with the economy affect different players in different ways, the very casual player who only uses the global screen for all their planets won't be effected by micromanagement issues almost at all simply because they don't micromanage. On the opposite side the player that wants to beat the game as quickly as possible does it in part by not by wasting production especially in the early game, not to silly levels of decimal points but still to the level of having to fiddle with planet wheels on most individual planets they own most turns. The game is on too big a scale, too many planets for that not to become boring it's too micromanagement intensive.
Games I find boring I quit, I haven't played GC3 for quite a while because I'm frustrated by its flaws. Players shouldn't have to "feel" forced (perhaps forced is wrong choice of word, I don't know?) to play worse than their ability allows or to change their gameplay style just to avoid micromanagement issues that's a symptom of poor game design which the point of these threads is to give ideas on how to address isn't it?
It would be great to find a solution for all types of players but that's likely not possible. At one point I'd have been like you I'd have said the more range of choice over fiddling with percentages the better, but that's what is causing huge micromanagement issues for some players imo, too much choice can be a bad thing. Just moving the wheel to the spot you want is a chore in itself. The scale of the game is too big for the current system to be fun imo. Micromanaging 30 planets for 10 turns let alone 100-150 via that production wheel would make me want to quit currently.
So to fit your preference you want to change a feature that other players think is fine because you lack the self control to not micromanage?
You can't not micromanage with this system unless you use the Global system which isn't fit for purpose, your playing a different game if you use it, one where any meaningful planetary specialization goes out the window. If you use the individual planetary wheels you have to enter the planet screens and fiddle with them frequently there's no way around it. That's unnecessary micromanagement that doesn't need to be in the game whether you frequently change planets production or not. I'm sure I'm not the only person who thinks the production wheel is terrible, probably a lot of them have more sense than me and have moved on to something else rather than try to get it changed.
You can choose (self control) to not micro manage too much. Just micro enough to win. It's not as if the game points a gun at you and is like "micro or die." The AI is really dumb right now. You don't need to play anywhere near a perfect game to easily win.
What I think I'm hearing from you is that because you lack the self control to control yourself you want to change the game in such a way that will ruin it for other people. That's very selfish.
A lot of people have moved on from the game because the AI is pretty awful right now. I believe you have diagnosed the wrong problem.
All of the micro you're doing is pointless Obsessive Compulsiveness. The AI is sufficiently bad that you don't need to micro at all to win the game easily even on Suicidal.
Look, I got the fact you're fond of your beloved wheel, if you can't handle a different opinion without resorting to name calling perhaps you shouldn't post. Stardock probably won't even read this thread, and there's even less chance they will listen to my suggestions so I'd say it's safe, no ones going to take it away from you.
A retarded chimp probably could you're missing the point.
So what is your point? That you have OCD like many other people on this forum?
Why are you trying to get rid of something that only OCD people have trouble with?
The point of a game is to win it. You don't need to micro to win as you just admitted yourself. So why are you microing so much? The only possible explanation I can think of is OCD or lack of self control, or a combination of the two. I can't think of any other logical reason behind your stated behavior. Why are you spending so much time doing repetitive micro that you yourself admit is pointless?
I'm not saying OCD is bad. I probably have it too. What I'm trying to say it's important to understand yourself. Once you understand yourself, you can learn to control your behavior (sort of). If you happen to have a little bit of OCD, just admit it and move on.
There's also a reason a lot of the "hardcore" players returned to Civ 4. Civ 5 dumbed things down way too much. Sure, it is better for the casuals and that is probably where Stardock wants to keep this particular game, it makes sense economically unfortunately, but that doesn't mean getting rid of tools that allow hard core players to play how they want is the way to go.
I still honestly have no idea how you call yourself a micro manager when you are asking for quick click buttons in the overview to blindly set your production/research/income. The whole point of being a micro manager is that you go in, analyse and use exactly what you need, every turn. That is micro management in a 4x to it's very core.
I do understand also that you are a Let's Player and need to be conscious of the content of your video's, watching someone micro manage 50 planets every turn is probably not fun viewing for most. You obviously need to strike a balance and I get that, I am not adverse to having those buttons (or something similar) for casuals and pretend micro managers - I just don't see why your opinion needs to include the removal of a tool that a lot of people are quite ok with.
There should be something in the game that let's you put planets into control groups so it's possible to micro control groups of planets instead of ALL or ONE, which is what the current system is.
In other words, the current system is fine, but it can be improved upon.
Your apparent lack of imagination on why someone may choose to play a certain way or want a certain feature changed I'm guessing is because it would damage your argument that the feature is "fine" but of course they must have OCD... I'm not taking away your wheel you can relax, seriously.
Sure. To each his own. I agree. SO WHY WERE YOU TRYING TO REMOVE SOMETHING THAT OTHER PEOPLE LIKED?
If you believe "to each his own," then why did you try to take away things from other people?
Your position does not make logical sense.
Because the scope of the game is so big, for the same reason there's no tactical combat. A small simplification of the economy and additional ways e.g. not having to change an individual planets production in the planet screens or fiddle with a hard to use wheel would save a ton of time for players. There would still be plenty to micro manage (all strategy games need some) I really like the games buildings and specialization adjacency bonus tiles etc that wouldn't go away or be negatively effected by what I proposed. You'd just lose a tiny bit of control over production to reduce a massive amount of micromanagement for certain players. You'd still have to decide what to focus your production on you'd just have a bit less control over the amount. It would also in be a more visible system in planet lists and the tactical map that can also likely be controlled by groups or governors more easily.
There's probably not a way to introduce one system without removing the old, that would work imo.
I think many people think Gal Civ 3 isn't too great to play either currently. I think we can all agree it needs improvements we just can't agree what.
In other words, you're a hypocrite.
Which is fine. I'm not saying hypocrisy is bad per se. Very necessary for public office.
ARE YOU TRYING TO TAKE AWAY MY WHEEL? IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU ARE.
How exactly? So I'm an OCD hypocrite, marigoldran anything else you're going to call me before this thread gets locked? You accused me of not having self control earlier as well...
For what it's worth, there is a wide gap between someone who uses the global production wheel only, and someone who eeks out every single 10th of a point of production. I fall somewhere in that range, where I will make some planets generic under the global wheel, and many planets specialized but not to a silly degree. On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is global wheel and 10 is eek out every point, I am at about a 7. Some examples:
All planets have at least one or two factories to make upgrades faster. So a research specific planet will be set to 30/70 to make research a high priority, but some manufacturing left over for upgrades without the need to mess with the wheel. I probably get 80-90% of full potential this way, since I don't need to tweak the production settings ever. Some worlds are dual-specialized between manufacturing and either wealth or research. Such worlds would be used to add supplemental military manufacturing to nearby shipyards and run at 50/50. Only pure manufacturing worlds are ever set to 100%.
I don't do the above because it's best. I do the above because it is the appropriate balance for me between micromanagement and output for the current UI. If the system were better, I could get closer to max potential. As it is now, some standard slider settings like MacsenLP suggested would be fine. If we do get grouping, we need some governors to automatically switch planets between groups after upgrades are complete.
In other words, you're trying to remove the old system.
I don't believe I said I wasn't going to "try" I said I wasn't "going to take your wheel" for the simple reason that I don't work for Stardock and have the power to make that decision.
If the game developers had infinite time, they would create a second system that runs along with the first system. So that way players can choose between systems.
Fine by me. Except that I think they have better things to deal with.
Every time you colonize a planet you can tell the governor to turn off automatic upgrading.
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