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pacov's League of Legends general discussion thread - strategies, etc

pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

pacov's League of Legends general discussion thread - strategies, etc

I've locked/archived this thread/blog and have started a new discussion over here: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/454943/

Please join me if you like.

Am I streaming?

Well, I started a thread back in August (https://forums.joeuser.com/411269/) that's seen a lot of activity and actually had quite a few good bits of information for new and old players alike. I figure it's time to start a new thread and perhaps keep the OP up-to-date with useful information, etc. Feel free to use this post for any LoL discussion, etc.

Super fast background: I played a lot of Demigod as pacov/cheesuscrust. Back in August 2011 or so, I started getting heavily involved in LoL and folks have been kind enough to chime in with tips and links to various sites that have been quite useful to me. In addition, I've been able to keep up with folks that I've played Demigod with in the past and meet some new folks that play LoL and frequent these message boards.

Here's some of the things I've learned in the previous thread:

For anyone that is level 30 with an account in good standing, you can participate in the tribunal. This is a system that was setup by riot to allow the community to police their own. Check it out here: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/Tribunal
You can view players stats here: http://www.lolking.net. If they are in a game, you can check out those stats here: http://www.lolnexus.com/
Good site for builds: www.probuilds.net and www.lolking.net
You can unlock alistar and his unchained skin for free by following Riot games on youtube here: http://youtube.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/youtube#.

New Player tips

Play the tutorial.
Consider picking up the starter bundle. It's 530 RP (that's about $4). You get 8 champs unlocked, a 4 win IP boost and a 10 win XP boost. It's a pretty good deal (used it recently on an alt account). You can find it in the game store under bundles.
Riot gives you 400 RP as soon as you hit level 5. It's enough to buy some skins, a boost, or a cheap character.
Learn to last hit! Last hitting is simply landing the last hit on creeps. If you last hit, you get gold for that kill. The number of creeps you have killed is tracked in a value called CS. You can see this number in the top right hand corner of the ui or by pressing tab. Here's a really simple tutorial re: last hitting if you are brand new - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LheiRB76x5g
Read some guides on any character you want to try out. The recommended builds (what you see when you go to a shop) are not optimal. The guides include item suggestions and skill orders. These are very useful in learning decent ways to build characters
Use the rune combiner to get level 3 runes prior to level 20 if you like. You will need 375 IP. Buy any tier 1 rune that costs 15 IP. You need to purchase 25 of these. Click on your rune page. In the bottom right hand corner there is a button called the Rune Combiner. If you place 5 runes in there, you can get a random rune that is 1 tier higher (eg if you have 5 tier 1 runes, you will get 1 random tier 2 rune. Anyway, the math works out such that you spend 375 IP ( buy 25 tier 1 15 IP runes) and you get 1 completely random tier 3 rune. Some of the quintessences are 2k IP, so if you luck out and get one of those, you just won the lottery. You can always keep the random tier 2 rune if you end up with something good and don't want to trade it out yet.
Consider setting aside IP for tier 3 runes (available at level 20 and above). You can't purchase them with real money - only IP. Keep that in mind.

Great site I visit every day for LoL related news - http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends

pacov's misc info

I play on several accounts - my main is pacov.
I stream most nights between 8PM-11PM EST here: http://www.twitch.tv/1pacov1
I created quite a few short clip vids with in game voice chat, etc over here: http://www.youtube.com/user/LeagueOfPacov/videos?flow=grid&view=0.

Here's a guide I made

pacov's Guide to Improving at League of Legends and Moving Up in Elo

k - so I'm just going to put down some of my thoughts. I'm not amazing at this game, but I do certain things that improve my odds of winning in ranked and so far its panning out just fine (bronze 5 to gold 5 in about a month or so). We all have varied skill levels, so some of this might be useful and some not. Caveat complete.

Prerequisite- you need to know how to play every single role. You don't have to be a god at every single role (more power to you if you are - I'm certainly not). You need to be able to play at a serviceable level in every single role and excel at least at 1 role (preferably 2). In my case, I'm good at support and adc. I'm not great, but have serviceable mids and jungles and so so tops. Knowing what you are good at and bad at is very important. If you don't know, I can probably tell you - but you really should know... Anyway, you need to have enough champs to make solid picks in any role and you need to be able to cover any role if it comes down to it. I'll talk about how to get better at specific roles in a bit.

Champ select advice - Don't be the "fill" guy unless you really feel like you are awesome in all roles. Call your preferred role immediately when you hit the lobby. Say "adc pref." Do this as soon as you hit the lobby. Some people believe that if you call a role you magically get it. This is stupid, but if you call something out, folks will often accomodate your request. If you are feeling wishy washy for whatever reason, call out multiple roles in order of what you want to play - "adc/mid pref." In my experience, you generally do not want to call support. It's a very important role, but you want to be in a position to carry every single game if possible. If you aren't calling out a role, you are hoping that other players can carry you. If you are hoping that folks will carry you, you don't deserve to win. You need to know your best roles and you absolutely should request them.

Solo or duo in ranked? - Well, my 1st thought here is that you should solo. If you solo, you have to rely on yourself. IMO - its a much bigger test of skill to play solo and win than to duo. Do you want someone to carry you or do you really want to know that you are actually good? That said, provided you have the right duo partner, you can increase your odds of winning quite a bit. The simple math is that instead of having 4 teammates as unknown quantities, you only have 3. If you have a good duo teammate, you know what you can expect. When you duo, you get the most bang for your buck by having complimentary roles. Support/adc is good; jungle/mid also works. Even if you don't have direct symmetry in roles, if you are an amazing mid and I'm an amazing adc, our odds go up quite a bit if we both get those roles. Our odds go way down if we can't get those roles and are forced to play out of positions that we are weaker. For example, Bryff is a good mid. If he duo's up with me, the only way he will get to play that role is for me to call mid, take it myself, and then put myself into a position like support where I can't carry out of (I'm always 1st pick, Bryff is always last pick when we duo)... that and I have to show the mid I'm picking at the start which means Bryff gets hard countered. In short, we can expect that we will be a disadvantage when duo queuing. Now, if Bryff queued up with someone at a lower elo than himself that was solid, he'd likely be 1st pick and be able to get mid and have a better chance of carrying the game. Anyway, you need to keep in mind where you end up in pick order when duoing if you aren't looking to go adc/support. If you want that, you can usually get it.

How do you get better in roles that you are not good at? - Well, here's what I do. And this is really what I do on a regular basis. I think about what I'm good at and what I'm not good at. For instance, I realized that I don't play any hyper carry ads. So, I read up on hyper carries like vayne and kog maw. I look for guides on how to build them (most adcs are the same btw ), I look for vids on how people play them (eg how do I all in with a specific champ - is there a combo - when do I all in - what's the best way for me to burst - how should I behave in lane with this champ). Then, I fire up a custom game and try out the mechanics of whatever champ vs AI. Usually I learn a few tricks during that custom on how to position myself, etc. Then, I'm off to normal games where I'll request the role or character I'm trying out. Now, people still report your for being awful in normals, but it really is where you need to try out characters to see if you are any good or not as the bots are useless for proving your skill level to yourself. So, fire up that normal and ask to play a role (again - after you've tried out the champ against bots). If you don't know anyone you are with and you are quite awful, I suggest muting everyone at the start of the game. Then, do your best. Continue with this until you feel like you have a serviceable skill level in whatever role. And keep in mind what you need to work on. For me, I noticed I didn't really have alot of mids for ranked, so I started practicing some with gragas against and karth. That way, I'll be able to get the job done if I need to play mid. The next thing I need to do is put more time into being better top lane. Again, because while I prefer adc/support, I might need to play top for the team. So, best to be ready for it. Put your time in and practice roles.

One last thought - there are certain things you can generally expect in ranked. 1 - if you are 1st pick, you generally can call whatever you want. Common knowledge, I'm sure - but I'll add - CALL WHATEVER YOU WANT. 2 - if you duo queue, you generally can lock down both adc and support. It works best if your adc is 1st pick, ofc. I've bumped into like 10 random dedicated supports in all of my games of LoL. People generally aren't going to call support. So, if you are 1st pick and duo'd, just call adc and then your duo partner can almost always get support.

Lol King profiles for ranked tracking

I'm not going to update this regularly, so just consider it a snapshot (I'll add a date when I update them). Anyway, I enjoy seeing folks progress through ranked and keeping tabs on that sort of thing from time to time.

Snapshot updated 05/28/2014

blackhathedgehog - Gold I
Brad wong - Unranked
bryff - Gold V
danKnee - Platinum II
dynamo sexy (thundercles) - Gold III
krazikarl - Plat V
thegameofthrows - Diamond V
The Swan Is Back - Silver I
pacov - Gold V
Rui - Diamond I
zen_god - Platinum II

Character guides

Mid Ziggs by cow - http://www.lolking.net/guides/7906

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i dn´t care if is adc jungler mid or top if i need i kill as support dn´t care people say ks or not is a kill to the team i get the kill they get assist i never let them sacape if i can never and pacov know that, people think support dn´t need kill´s WRONG he need kill´s to all need kill´s to can carry all in team.

if we have a feed adc and lose the game who is fault?support omg all time or jungler but the fail is adc cause get all kill´s and dn´t got brain to carry.because that all need kill´s time to time of course not ks on porpose but get kill give moral to go front or get a better equipmnt etc.

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

Quoting Krazikarl,

reply 3475

Sure, but you need to realize that your interpretation of "guaranteed kill" is _extremely_ optimistic.

I feel like I should cycle through all of the things that clearly indicate if a kill is guaranteed... that would likely insult your intelligence. Guaranteed means there's no way you miss the kill. And these are typically guaranteed because a flash is down along with an escape if the champ has one. If that crap is still up, then its not guaranteed. If you see the enemy guy flash, you see them use their escape and all you need to do is let the adc hit the guy 1 one time when the adc is in range, you are either bad or trolling if you take the kill. Guaranteed means its going to happen or extremely good odds the kill is going to happen (90% chance or higher).

I'm fine with any complaints/critiques related to the things I'm trying out with ash. But that said, high attack speed + slows + high move speed + an ash ult pretty much ensure a kill can get locked down... it just means that its also pretty easy to take a kill from her if you aren't paying attention to see that its secured.

Anyway, there's plenty of times where a kill might not be secured. Take it then. But I do say things like X player flash and barrier are down... its not all that difficult to keep those things in mind and consider that the goal of a support/jungler when ganking a lane is to get the adc fed in this meta. Obviously in a meta where an adc gets a No CS support that buys wards, etc, well... the overall strategy seems to have a bit to do with getting that particular role fed/farmed. You help the adc get a kill you are doing amazing. You help an adc get an assist, its still ok, but generally not as good (based on what's going on in the game).

edit - rui - I disagree. Supports should not be taking kills unless that's the only way to get the kill. The entire bot lane meta is about getting the adc farmed up. Kills certainly are a part of that farm money per se.

oh - and of course I agree that if someone gets away because you are trying to let someone get a kill, you done screwed up. Just a bit of understanding if its a secured kill or not. You'll see good supports behaving this way the majority of the time. Lock it down for the adc whenever possible.

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Yes, I am swan. Anyway... I happen to remember a game a couple days ago... i was support lux and pacov was jungle not... we had an orri deep in our jungle early with like 10 hp left and everybody just seemed to leave to give me the kill lol...

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yes i was trying say that, i get the kill if is top mid adc or jungler,no ks,just if someone can´t get her i dn´t let her scape or i try he dn´t scape, normally i dn´t take kill´s,just if we need go in fight and i get a kill for any reason but normally i try lock the kill if the mate who come with me dn´t get her i get that was i trying to say pacov

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

Quoting Koskee,

reply 3478

haha - I remember that. quite retarded is my brain sometimes.

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Re: Kill Securing

@Karl

Pacov's ADC attitude isn't unique to him.

I was playing a ranked game the other day where I had a sliver of health as Leona, and was trying to walk away so my ADC could get the kill. It got to the point where I wasn't just the enemy Tristana hitting me with an AA away from death, I was a caster minion AA away from death! So I E'd back and killed her...

The abuse I got, I can't print here where the children might read it.

Also I let Hedgie die a few weeks ago because I had been playing with Pacov recently and was gun shy about taking the kill, and that's not the first time my not being able to make the right decision on a split seconds notice has lead to a kill getting away or worse.

So yeah... I see a kill I take it. Hedgie doesn't care, and most of the solid ADC's I end up supporting in ranked don't give a shit either.

They realize that that the extra gold from a kill over an assist is not worth the risk of losing the kill entirely, or having their support possibly die. They know that LoL is a game of split second reactions, not decisions in those circumstances and that you can't be reasonably expected to compute in time whether the opposing jungler or mid or teleporting top is going to appear out of nowhere to save the enemy bot lane and feed them a double kill because you didn't pull the trigger in time.

And Karl makes a good point about Pacov: He's extremely optimistic about things in this game. "Free Kills" "Free Barons" Everything is free! But also I don't think he realizes the math behind what you're risking if someone gets away... or worse turns the fight around unexpectedly. The dead lose out on minion gold, minion xp, and that supposedly secured kill gold and xp that they could have enjoyed from their assist. Letting a kill go because you wanted to give the ADC a little more gold can actually mean the difference between winning and losing a lane... which could mean winning or losing the game in the long run.

Or maybe he just doesn't care because unless it's him carrying the game, what's the point of winning it?

@Pacov

You fuck around with troll builds all the time. That's fine. I'm a fan of trying to break the meta, find new strats... nothing ventured nothing gained, so bravo.

But...

We don't know if you're going to be playing the balls out Draven killing machine that got you to gold... or fucking around with Utility Masteries, Crit Runes, no damage items, no damage abilities... I've watched poor Karl come into your lane for a 3v2 gank... Hedgie was with you so you had a great support so no excuses there... the gank was perfect... and resulted in a double kill for the other team because of your No Damage Ashe experiment.

That's just the worst example I've ever seen... there were many more incidents in bot lane that went bad because you're always trying to figure out a better way to play ADC that doesn't involve doing lots of damage. So... how are you the one who gets the most upset that people don't trust you to secure the kills?

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Quoting pacov,

reply 3477

But I do say things like X player flash and barrier are down... its not all that difficult to keep those things in mind and consider that the goal of a support/jungler when ganking a lane is to get the adc fed in this meta.

Yes, but you also have to keep in mind that you make a lot of calls based on what you think you know, rather than what you are sure about. I've been told by you several times that the enemy flash/barrier are down only to show up and have them flash away.

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@Pacov

You fuck around with troll builds all the time. That's fine. I'm a fan of trying to break the meta, find new strats... nothing ventured nothing gained, so bravo.

pacov is the best top 10 sweet troll ever from heart but he normally does magic as a troll "be fcking amazing"demigod style

GG pacov let come the real troll´s we crashe them like sparta

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

Quoting Thundercles,

reply 3481

They know that LoL is a game of split second reactions, not decisions in those circumstances and that you can't be reasonably expected to compute in time whether the opposing jungler or mid or teleporting top is going to appear out of nowhere to save the enemy bot lane and feed them a double kill because you didn't pull the trigger in time.

bah. split second reactions based on the experience of what is going on around you. Is the enemy jungler nearby, is mid still at mid, is the adc's flash/barrier down, can their support save them? A good support, at the very least, is very much aware of all of those factors. And based on that, a decision is made. Can I afford to let the adc get the kill (eg is it secured of not)? If so, then I probably won't throw a snowball at the enemy when he has 60 hp. Or apparently its far too difficult to determine in many circumstances if you let your adc get the kill shot in? You are very mistaken if you take this as me saying 100% of the time you should make sure the adc gets the kill. But I did say this:

Quoting pacov,

reply 3470

I'd love it if folks were a smidge more intelligent about taking secured kills when I adc.

Quoting pacov,

reply 3470

As always, secure the kill if there's a chance of escape - funnel the kill to your adc if there is not. Anything else is just weak play or trolling - take your pick.

I'll add - I'm really just talking about the laning phase here. And I'm more specifically addressing obvious instances where its a free kill. The support is dead. The adc is on the run with no escape. I'd better throw a snowball at him or eat him as chogath. So, I'd still appreciate if a smidge more thought could be put in.

Quoting Thundercles,

reply 3481

But also I don't think he realizes the math behind what you're risking if someone gets away... or worse turns the fight around unexpectedly.

If they could get away, its not a secured kill... if the fight can suddenly turn around, its not a secured kill.

Quoting Thundercles,

reply 3481

Letting a kill go because you wanted to give the ADC a little more gold can actually mean the difference between winning and losing a lane... which could mean winning or losing the game in the long run.

So don't let any kills go - just don't take a secured kill from an adc. Mudding up a simple concept - ponder if there is any escape for the target. If so, kill em. If not, don't be the guy that drops the last 30 hp from the target. Holy shit - some deep thoughts there, eh. All you are doing is determining who the kill falls on. Its a much bigger deal if the lane isn't going well. Obviously, that extra money would be helpful to get the adc back in it.

Quoting Thundercles,

reply 3481

Or maybe he just doesn't care because unless it's him carrying the game, what's the point of winning it?

If I'm the adc, I have a few jobs. Don't get kill in team fights unless its worth it. Do damage. Kill towers. Needs money to do some of those jobs.

Quoting Thundercles,

reply 3481

So... how are you the one who gets the most upset that people don't trust you to secure the kills?

Quoting Thundercles,

reply 3481

there were many more incidents in bot lane that went bad because you're always trying to figure out a better way to play ADC that doesn't involve doing lots of damage. So... how are you the one who gets the most upset that people don't trust you to secure the kills?

Oh no - pacov did not build a bf and instead is going for AS/crit chance on a champ with a passive 100% crit at his 1st shop. We'd better take this kill so his damage output stays low. No way an ash could possibly keep up with an enemy champ that has no escapes - better kill em; I don't trust pacov to get the kill. Shit son - he even blew his money on some boots that further guarantee the target can't get away. I DISAGREE WITH THE ADCS PURCHASES! I SHALL TAKE THIS KILL! gg. Poor play or trolling me. Take your pick.

Or... and hear me out... if its simply possible to take a moment and think before immediately trying to take a kill that is pretty much a gimme, well, maybe we could just say 1 liner sentences like that and respond.

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

Quoting Krazikarl,

reply 3482

well... I can't deny that. To be fair, sometime there is a correlation between when I say those things and you show up... but sometimes I am outright incorrect.

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

OK - so I just played a ranked game as jungle naut. I'd like some analysis if anyone has the time or inclination.

runes - move speed quints, flat armor seals, AS red, scaling MR blue.

masteries - 0/9/21 - a little bit tanky with extra gp/10, cdr, and move speed. The stats are here: http://quickfind.kassad.in/profile/na/pacov/

No idea how to pinpoint, but its prob the only naut game I have near the top. I have no lolreplay, but I have vid with in game chat, etc. Here's the vid: http://www.twitch.tv/1pacov1/c/2425769

I'm uploading it to youtube- should be live in a wee bit, so just check the youtube page if that works better for viewing. Thx for any feedback. And note - I'm looking for feedback related to how I play and what I do. I'm fairly aware of the dumb crap that some of my teammates pull. Thanks!

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@Pacov

I try and keep track of the enemy jungler's whereabouts best I can, and if enemy top has teleport, and if there is a Shen or TF in the game, and if they are if their ults are on CD, and if mid is missing and where it is warded by my mid so I know where he's going to come from if he roams (unless he's Kass or Lissandra, then who the fuck knows where the guy who gets the double kill on you and your ADC came from?), and if the enemy bot lane's summoner spells and ultimates are up, and how far ahead or behind we are in levels, and if my ADC is ahead or behind his counterpart in CS, and if we have the minion advantage, and...

But I'm not EdWard.

If we lane together, build optimally so I can count on your damage and get you some kills. It's hard to turn off the "Do as much damage and CC as quickly and efficiently as possible" switch off instantly, but if I'm 100% sure you can get the kill without us being put into unneeded danger, it's yours and I'll make an effort not to risk taking it. 99% or less? I honestly hope you end up getting the last hit because that would be the optimal result... but I'm not ever going to risk someone getting away even if it's only a small chance because that is best for the team, so get over it.

Quoting pacov,

reply 3484

I DISAGREE WITH THE ADCS PURCHASES! I SHALL TAKE THIS KILL! gg. Poor play or trolling me. Take your pick.

I DISAGREE WITH THE MID'S CHAMP SELECTION! I SHALL TAKE ALL HIS BLUES!

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

Quoting Thundercles,

reply 3487

I DISAGREE WITH THE MID'S CHAMP SELECTION! I SHALL TAKE ALL HIS BLUES!

MID HAS DIED 5 TIMES IN 5 MINUTES! I SHALL TAKE ALL HIS BLUES!

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awuffleablehedgie

Join Date 04/2009

+60

#support ks:

Obviously, it's optimal for the ADC to be taking the kills (except perhaps at level 3 with a Leona because Leona will be hurt, can base + buy a ruby and then be unkillable for 15 minutes while her ADC free farms). However, it usually isn't a "huge" deal for the ADC to get the assist unless:

1- they end up being 150 gold short of a BFS (which sucks but #winninglaneproblems)

2- it's a 1-for-1 trade where the ADC on your team died but the support died on the enemy team (the other ADC gets farm).

That said, you see these 1-for-1 trades happen all the time because the support did less damage TRYING to give their ADC the kill.

3- case #2 happens multiple times with jungle ganks/etc and so both ADCs have low CS but one ADC is 4/3/0 while the other is 0/3/4.

This is the only time taking the kills completely fucks up the lane because the other ADC is a whole mid-item ahead + 1 level ahead and will dominate the lane unless the losing ADC continually gets ganks.

4- jungler ganks an already behind lane (that isn't feeding - think 0/1 but 20 CS behind, not 0/5), and gets the kill while letting their laner die. The laner is still behind (got 150 gold... yay).

In any case a support last-hitting an opponent is hardly "trolling" - just suboptimal play. Unless, of course, your KS Sona flash-ignites someone with 50 while they are under your tower. That's just an awful play that hurts the team.

Additionally, i think this is ONLY accurate in the laning phase. In teamfight, every second doing stupid stuff like tanking damage + not killing people is a second less you have to do real objectives worth more than 300 gold after winning. Teamfights too often live on the razor's edge.

If I'm the adc, I have a few jobs. Don't get kill in team fights unless its worth it. Do damage. Kill towers. Needs money to do some of those jobs.

(and more)

The whole idea behind the support is SR has 4 gold streams, but 5 champs. Gold is more effective when stacked on a single character. This is why the support gives up its gold and gives their gold to the champ that scales the best with gold and the worst with levels.

Emphasis on "gold is more effective when stacked on a single character".

If your midlane or toplane is really far ahead, the BEST play is to defer the gold to them. Afterall, gold is more effective when stacked on a single character.

If your midlane is ahead while the ADC is behind, you have two decisions:

1- let your midlane get all the gold, dominate teamfights, let your ADC catch up on assists/objective gold 15 minutes later

2- let your behind ADC farm, go even in teamfights, your ADC catches up in 10 minutes but you lose all momentum in your mid.

It really shouldn't be a surprise that #1 is typically the better option of the two. When i'm playing ADC while behind and my solo lanes are fed, you bet i defer lane gold to them - i'll get wraiths/wolves!

This was what thunder was trying to say about "it's not winning unless you carry".

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Quoting pacov,

reply 3488

MID HAS DIED 5 TIMES IN 5 MINUTES! I SHALL TAKE ALL HIS BLUES!

Are you saying that the team should adjust tactics that are usually in everyone's best interest, such as that Mid's should get Blue buff and that Jungler's and Supports should attempt to make sure ADC's get the kills, when a Mid or ADC is playing or building so poorly that they've essentially made themselves worthless?

I agree with you that it is counterproductive to give feeding Mids Blue Buff.

Do you agree that it is hard to safely funnel kills to an ADC that doesn't do very much damage?

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awuffleablehedgie

Join Date 04/2009

+60

masteries - 0/9/21 - a little bit tanky with extra gp/10, cdr, and move speed.

i think 2/7/21 is somewhat better in terms of raw jungling speed (Naut may be different because of his hp ratio with Veterans).

i think you're supposed to get Vampiricism instead of EXP though (EXP% is pretty weak - better with the latest patch though).

Summoner CD is really important... that's one of the big reasons to go 21 in Utility (6% CDR is another obviously)

(take a look at my #7 mastery page)

MID HAS DIED 5 TIMES IN 5 MINUTES! I SHALL TAKE ALL HIS BLUES!

there's a big difference here. Someone playing a (supposedly) weaker mid and so you deny them blues is...

Wait, isn't that the same thing as supporting an AS/Crit% Ashe and then "taking" kills? Because you see them building something weaker than average and then you do something that goes against the "meta" because you don't trust them and then... *ahem*

Anyway, if someone dies 5 times in 5 minutes, it's probably a suboptimal play to give them blue - they'll feed it away.

Just like denying an unconventional mid that's doing well third+ blues outright is going suboptimal play.

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

reply 3489

laning phase - agreed. I shouldn't be bitching outside of that. I still might if I'm like 2/3/13, mind you, but just in laning. All I'm saying is use a smidge of sense if its a freebie.

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

give pacov jungle critiques plz - t'was a decent game, but t'was ranked. I'm really looking for things like "pacov - at 11 min in, you went to BLAH. Looks like you should have X for X reason." I think I'm doing an ok job with jungle, but even with that "good" game, there are moments to improve upon.

edit - i c hedgie provided some tips, but I didn't get a chance to read all. off to bed - i check out tomorrow. thx for that. You prob provided tips while buying pink wards. TYTYTY

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I'd like to add that the AD carry should in my opinion, never be the shot caller. When people play AD carry they seem to get this mememe mentality (me included) which really is not best for the team. Try to leave it up to your support or jungle to be the shot caller as they are usually more inclined to think about what is best for the team (since they have to actively work with them).

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

and my fav moment of last night... hedgie calling it how it is: http://www.twitch.tv/1pacov1/c/2428766

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awuffleablehedgie

Join Date 04/2009

+60

I'd like to add that the AD carry should in my opinion, never be the shot caller.

While that may be generally true, the ADC can still "call shots"; eg, bot lane just went to base and i have a BT - let's do dragon. It's still up to the jungler though (do they have smite/hp?). Since 40+ ADCs tend to be the most critical part of the teamfight, they can also communicate what happened from their point of view and what they need from the team (though it does have to be intelligent - not OMG NO PEELS AFK).

Obviously this is a bit of a truism but i think it's important to state before anyone gets TOO angry about OMG ADC CAN MAKE CALLS TOO.

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

how the fug did you even format like that hedgie... I'm impressed.

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awuffleablehedgie

Join Date 04/2009

+60

3:00 -

super risky to stop a double buffed cho who had double buff,
esp since Irelia was a little behind in EXP and the lane was pushed against her
you could have risked giving Riven blue

4:30 -

bot lane was pushed, you decide to steal wolves (?) but then you reacted to Cho's gank
It would have been better to just go straight to bot before cho
even appeared on the map because MF was super low
(could have potentially dove from behind wraiths with just a snowball
if Cho hadn't shown)

6:15 -

after first shop, probably would have been better to start golems since you had smite,
golems should be the priority camp if you don't have anything else to do.

Your plan may have been to 3v1 dive the Riven but ... very risky to dive a level 6 riven.

8:00 -

recall instead of supporting a 3v2 dive

9:30 -

push the lane out a quite a bit while Irelia was going to base and is now at super risk (Riven ends up counter pushing it though).

Better play would have been to go do dragon while Irelia + Cait/Lulu were already down there

11:00 -

don't think that the double kill was exactly your fault... just a little hard to gank Morgana

Could have done it better obviously.

12:00 -

you make poor Bryff tank dragon (something you tend to do).

Make sure you stand closer to dragon/baron so that other people don't tank unless you have good reason not to.

13:00 -

can't catch MF lol and Hunny had 300 gold dying to tower no idea why hunny thought that was a good call.

14:00 -

mana crystal is for... Frozen Heart? Ryze will probably build that (eventually). Should go into Aegis/Locket.

Anyway FH isn't very good against MF.

15:00 -

Your team has no siege potential outside of Caitlyn Q's... can't do shit against Morgana.

20:00 -

again your team can't do anything against morgana sieging (and Lite's Ryze seems to need a bit of work)

20:45 -

fight for farm with Caitlyn when wolves were up (you didn't have your wolf consume buff either)

24:00 -

lose baron for inhibitor. Probably should have based after tower but it's hard to know without checking death timers (which you didn't

24:40 -

turns out they didn't finish baron yet (lol) . Oh well, backing off of it was probably still the safer call

25:00 -

chasing morg probably not a good idea

26:00 -

your team is getting pretty wounded and your team is posturing aggressive - hunny says back off (good idea)

29:00 -

Your team gets dominated by Morgana lol

Can't fight AoE teamcomps with your team (you have no real initiate and they are all AoE)

31:00 -

Your team is trying to base right before Baron respawns...

31:30 -

baron spawns

32:00 -

Luckily Cho'gath doesn't pull off of baron quick enough - would have lost teamfight super badly otherwise

33:00 -

crazy thing on MF... you had no vision either.

Really risky play (could have just snowballed her to prevent recall and then posture for baron)

34:00 -

Nope, still can't teamfight against Morgana/MF/Riven/Cho

36:00 -

Still can't.

Probably should have had someone split push botlane instead of posturing for baron at this point.

This is even more true of Irelia or Ryze have TP (do they? i haven't seen them use if if they do).

Lost that fight without even a Morgana ult.

Everytime you get near-aced and keep falling more and more gold behind.

<starting here it's a lot of posturing farming/splitting towers and teamfights that get wreckedone way or the other)

45:00 -

base rush was a good idea but Caityln needed to dodge the morg binding

i'm kind of questioning how good a Dorans shield at 48 minutes is. i guess it is "something" but i feel like Red pot would be better?

and it doesn't use a slot so you could go red pot + 2/3 wards

53:00 -

Thornmail not a very good item against MF.

Randuins would have been huge to help slow down the Riven and potentially Morgana.

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

hedgie - that game was pretty bad for me as a jungler. I don't have time to read atm, but I will and appreciate the feedback.

anyway, quick summary. played a bunch of games. 1 game was with bryff's bud yoshiop. I don't think I'll be playing with him again. Not that he's a bad guy or anything (smeh tbh, but not my point). I actually felt bad anytime I swore. Guy sounds like he's 8. If I feel guilty when I'm swearing... well... I'm not up for that.

Anyway, I ended the night playing a ranked game with hunny. My mmr appears to be swell or something as I was fp. I went jungle nunu and ended 2/1/14. Much better item selection this time ofc. I currently think I have 2 really solid and useful junglers - naut/nunu. Anyway, I go nunu and do quite well. We had a crazy person as malz mid. As in he did a ton of crazy things and said crazy things in chat. Kind of creepy. BUT - for the most part did his part (ended 7/4/8) - he ulted priority targets multiple times and gave us the chance to clean up. I was counter jungled a bit, but then decided to force udyr to go where I wanted him to be for a bit. I think I stayed in bot lane for like 2-3 minutes at one point helping them get a tower. Actually seemed like the right call and paid off with us getting a tower and udyr being completely unable to farm/counter jungle for a bit as he had to stay. We were set to gain a tower... he was set to be a babysitter and accomplish nothing but slow down us taking a tower when no one could help him. Anyway, I feel like i had a good performance.

re: hunny - I think hunny makes some bad decisions.... slightly more frequently than me. He got the job done in the ranked though, but he's almost always off farming/delaying engages. Anyway, the result matters. It was a ranked where were we down a bit and we eventually overcame. He missed out on a few teamfights while he was in the area farming. Shit happens. He did his job all said and done though.

Other stuff - now that I'm jungling more I really love it when the support gets aegis and I get aegis from time to time based on comp. A support that has to get aegis really isn't a ton of fun unless you are leona/taric. Always best imo if the jungler or top are on aegis duty and the support can get other support items like twin shadows, etc. Me going thresh and karl picking up aegis is a huge help to the team imo. So, I dig that. Anyway, that's it. Off to bed and thanks for the games tonight! Hopefully catch you all tomorrow.

oh - and im 1 game away from gold 4. In my promo series 1/0. Night!

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I played a lot with hunny last week... he's spectacular, but he does some random things wrong, and you kind of scratch your head because most of the time... he's spectacular...
One night we played 3 games and two of the games I was supporting him bot on blue side and the enemy team both games had a lee sin jungle. So first game we get lee ganked by him basically w to the adc/support and slowing us, ect ect and die by that... I get the hint and ward in that bush behind their tower at blue... from that point on i pinged him to fall back every time lee was coming... I think he died 4 additional times in those two games from the same gank situation, and every time it was warded and he just never got the hint, iono... we won all 3 games that night, but i was confused as to why he wouldn't just fall back when we knew what was happening. well, at least i did.

EDIT: @pacov... I'm really happy that clip exists and will listen to it every time I am in a promotion series.

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