So Damage Types like "Ice" and "Fire" and "Electric" won't be in? Without Damage Types you won't have monsters or units that are "weak" against certain types of damage. That's pretty sad in a game that should have multiple ways to hurt your enemy in combat Imo.

I really, REALLY, think you should include damage types. Not including them is the lazy way out don't you think? Especially in a game where you have a vast library of spells at your disposal that all do different things. A Ice Spell should hurt a fire creature more then a Fire Spell. That's just common sense to me and I honestly think a Lot of other Fantasy Game players feel the same way. Leaving out Damage Types is a big mistake.

As for mobility that should be pretty simple. If the field of combat is implemented in a grid system then certain units can or should be able to move more "Squares" per turn then others. Obviously mounted units would be able to move closer to an enemy in one turn then infantry types would. Example:

Infantry = 3 Squares per turn in combat

Mounted = 6 Squares per turn in combat

Flying = 9 Squares per turn in combat

Terrain can also play a Large part in mobility. Swampland would slow down a unit moving through it or take more "movement points" to move through while Flying units wouldn't be affected at all.

Edit: on a side note, just because the game is Highly Moddable doesn't mean you should rely on Modders to make the game fun or to do your work for you. (Not that I think you'd do that)

You don't have to go hog wild with damage types, but at least some kind of distinction between physical and magic damage would help.

I asked this a fair while ago but i had no response. Can you modify the combat mechanics? I developed my own combat system a while ago and i'd like to implement it in elemental. Is this possible without too much of a headache?

Hmmmm..... combat is one part of games I really don't care about..... I enjoy complexity, but I don't want TC to upstage other parts of the game.... like MODDING.

What I want to see are formations and definitely a system which allows you to take advantage of mobile forces.  Both of these were a huge part of A Song of Ice and fire, and since this game is influenced by the series it should reflect that.

btw, great idea, NuclearEngine!  something like that would make my day.

I agree, and recommend that both the Clausewitz'ian massing at the enemy's hub-of-all-power/center of gravity and the Sun Tzu 'vian divide and conquer methods of total combat be balanced and achievable within Elemental game mechanics. This would be incredibly difficult but if achieved it would provide a unique and rare gaming experience... the assured superiority of Clausewitz'ian rushes taint far too many games imo.

... I also submit that when an attritted but successful unit is given experience, it should be a smaller/more effective unit... until reinforced, in which case the experience should be ameliorated to a comparable degree.

... mobility allowed the Mongols to unhinge their opponents plans/operations and tactics - the fog of war could be used to partially replicate this Mongol advantage, while it would be prohibitive to make their opponents fog of war stronger, perhaps it would be possible to lessen the impact of the fog of war on a Mongol player... in this manner, it would be up to the Mongol player to both discern and then take advantage of what he glimpses in his reduced fog of war, be it an enemy's geographically separated main body of troops or a vulnerable but valuable territorial prize...

Definitely!!!

Also, didn't Gal Civ 2 have damage "types"? I believe it had Phaser/Laser, Mass Driver, and Missile types. All these affected the target in Different ways.

Even at a very basic level Elemental needs to make a distinction between Physical and Magical Damage.

In unit design if we can imbue our troops with Magical abilities I would imbue a number of caster units with "Fire" to fight a enemy from a cold climate or one that lives in a snow environment. Reverse that if my empire is based in a colder climate and my enemies come from hot tropical zones. Utilizing Damage Types brings a Lot of Diversification and Strategy to the game for Combat. I still think it's a HUGE mistake to leave out Damage Types.

Firstly regarding flanking. If the mounted units or any units for that matter (mounted would be easier with better speed) manage to get in behind the enemy and attack from the side or rear than they should get a bonus. Even if you don't implement some kind of facing direction for the units it could still work with the units defaulting in a forwards facing direction. An attack from behind would automatically change the units facing though otherwise the recipent of the attack would get the same bonus when they responded.

Secondly regarding damage types. I agree with some of the other posters, magic damage types is very important. Probably not slashing, piercing, blunt etc but magic damage types and magic resistance.

I'd like to see a system where light infantry / cavalry have a chance to evade when charged and heavies can counter-charge.  Heavy infantry under attack from missile fire may have a 'shield wall' option, while lights have a 'skirmish order' option. Infantry could close up when charged by cavalry and so on.

I think a system that manages this would have a really nice ebb and flow to it.  Experience could be factored in by giving units better chances to react based on experience levels (isn't that what experience is all about?)

In terms of implementation, maybe it could be done by placing units in a 'ready' (overwatch?) mode if they have enough movement left, or simply make it a 'bonus' move if they've already moved, but make the unit more tired.

Tiredness - that's something I'd like to see added.  Units that charge too much get winded and lose effectiveness.  This could be a great tactic for mobile armies - force the other guy to chase you around until he's exhausted.

And one more thing - flank and rear attacks should be devastating against units (but maybe not monsters).

If different damage types are not implemented, then it is crucial for the sake of strategic diversity to give different types of weapons some sort of distinction. I think that the best way to do this is to give different weapon types (and even individual weapons) some kind of special bonus. For instance, cavalry lances should provide a bonus on charge, one handed swords should increase defence (parrying bonus), and warhammers should have some degree of armor penetration. In addition, some weapons should have abilities that can be used in battle, such as special formations; some of these abilities should only be unlocked if the unit is sufficiently trained upon creation. Examples of these would be a phlanax formation for wielders of long spears that would skewer any units charging the it, but leave it vulnerable on the flanks; troops armed with pavises should be able to plant them in the ground, thus greatly increasing their resistance to ranged attacks at the expense of being immobile. I think that this system has the advantage of being straight-forward and intuitive, while creating an interesting system of counters between units.

In addition, I believe that the current set of unit stats is much too restrictive. More ways to costumize your units should be added, like giving them more attacks per turn. In addition, I believe that an fatigue stat should be added, which will be affected by the type of armor worn by the unit, and increase as the unit gains experience. The stat will affect the amount of activity a unit can endure in combat before getting exhausted (which would mean a great penalty to attack, defence and movement). This would be repsresented in combat by a fatigue bar, which would be higher according to the endurance of the unit (or drain more slowly?), and will be reduced every time a unit moves or attacks; different kinds of movement and attacks should drain a different amount of fatigue. The main advantage of adding fatigue is that it balances small elite armies against large swarms of angry peseants, because even a mighty knight would eventually run out of juice and be overwhelmed by the filthy lower classes. Another stat that would add depth to the small elite/large swarm dynamic would be morale. By adding morale, a smaller army could win the battle simply by scaring the unexperienced troops of the enemy, allowing it to triumph without taking on the entire enemy army by itself.

As for the advantage of experience, I believe that the most fun solution is to unlock new abilities for a unit, much like the ones granted by special armaments. For instance, experienced knights should be given a "fight on!" ability, which replenishes their fatigue but can only be triggered while in close combat; infantry units could be given a forced march ability, providing a free move at the cost of fatigue; fast cavalry or fliers can be given an ability to disentangle themselves from melee without incuring additional casualties (this assumes that units can't simplt waltz in and out of combat like in MoM);  archers can unlock a "darken the skies" ability, which lets them rapidely shoot several volleys of arrows at the cost of ammunition and fatigue. All in all, I think that unlockable abilities not only add strategic depth, but are also a very fun interactive mechanic (much more fun than a flat bonus to stats. Math is boring! ), and in addition, abilities reinforce the RPG vein of Elemental.

I agree there should be multiple damage types for magic.

One idea I have is that there should be a "Ready Attack'/ Retaliate option.  When a player has a unit use it, unit can no longer be given an attack or move order for that turn(and a unit can ready an attack if it has moved or attacked.  The next time an enemy unit enters moves into combat range or attacks unit, the readied unit automatically attacks.  This attack would take place the instant the condition is met.  In the case of enemy unit moving into combat range the attack interupts the enemy's move action.  Once the attack is complete the enemy may resume their move action.  In the case of being attacked, the unit's attack takes place before the enemy's.  If the enemy survives, they execute their attack.  To take this a bit farther, different weapons could modify the damage done by a readied attack, such as double damage for spears( reflect their reach advantage and how they can be set against a charge).

The result of that would be making spears effective against charging units such as calvary without needing a special damage type.  The downside is that it would make defense a very powerful option so there needs to be a way around it.  One way could be requice the player to specify the direction the unit is facing and then only let the readied attack happen in that direction.  There could also be a damage bonus for an unit that attacks a readied unit in a direction other than the one it is readied against.  Say double damage for attack the sides of a readied unit and triple damage for attacking from behind it.

For mobility, what about letting some units move after attacking?  Say a unit with a move speed of 5, it moves three and attacks then moves back two.  This could apply to all mounted units or be special training units recieve.  This would let mounted archers wear away an entrenched enemy like the Mongols played hit and run.  However, mounted archers should have less range than infantry ones.

Now if my two ideas are combined, the result would be interesting.  Mounted archers could wear down any melee infantry that go defensive and ready attacks.  If the infantry to move to attack, the mounted archers can retreat or have other mounted units attack the infantry while they don't have attacks readied.  By having the range of a mounted archer be less than an infantry archer, the infantry archer could ready an attack from behind a melee infantry unit and do damage to the mounted archer.  The problem then would be a massed amount of infantry archers behind spear using infantry being very hard to beat for mounted archers.  One solution could be using magci to 'break' the redied action of enemy units vie a spell that induces fear or extreme pain.

Another solution, and my third idea, would be to let completly mounted armies break off and leave the battle at will.  There should be a few conditions or course, such as the enemy having no mounted units or if they do have mounted units over 50% of their units have readied an attack and thus cannot pursue.

Another way to have tactics would be having map position influence tactical battle starting position.  If multiple stack can be in battle based on being adjacent to/touching the primary attacker/defender, then flanking situations(or defensive ones) can be set up.  An example would be attack an enemy with an infantry army from the east and a mounted army from the west.  You would then start on both sides of your enemy in a tactical battle.  There should also be an option that you set for a unit stack that it will not join battles that happen nearby.

Some good ideas I really like here.

I really would like to see a morale system where leadership can matter. Bad morale can make your units automatically fall back when you want them to move up (they still fight but aren't brave enough to get closer), become inactive and will only defend (paralyzed in fear), or just plain broken and the unit scatters to the wind. Veteran units could have better morale. Green units can be dangerous to field because they might suddenly "break" after minimal losses.

The exhaustion idea sounds like a fun way of modeling reality. Give units a stamina statistic that winds the more actions they take. As they become more exhausted their to-hit and to-defend accuracy would suffer as well as moving slower (maybe even not at all). Thoroughly exhausted units might lose morale as well.

I think damage types are a MUST for being included. But I think you can get around doing too much work on them. Make Humans and Fallen the base line for damage storyline wise so it doesn't matter what damage type it is. Instead you can give special statistics on a few rare units (like elementals) that include vulnerabilities and immunities to certain damage types. So when the opponent suffers a super bad Fire Elemental it has immunity to all your fire spells but a little water spell might just make it go up in a poof of steam. This avoids having too many statistics to worry above for rank and file units but also allows for fun strategic battles with special units (*cough* Elementals *cough*). I'd like to see the rank file kept to Armor, Physical Defense, and Magical Resistance statistics on the defense side.

P.S. - since your starting on monday it sounds like the patch should be a go for this week