Forum Home | Login

terpfan1980

Join Date 08/2004

+13

No parents allowed in Sex-ed classes in school

Controversial classes taught without parents allowed in room

From The Washington Times, headline is linked.

Parents can't sit in on sex-ed classes

By Jon Ward
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Montgomery County Public Schools have barred parents from sitting in on classes in which a new sex-education curriculum will be taught, despite an official schools policy that encourages parents to visit their children's classrooms.
The policy states that parents are welcome to visit their child's classroom with permission from school administrators. The policy says, "Classroom visits and conferences by parents and other persons in the school community are encouraged."
Not this time.
Brian Edwards, a county schools spokesman, said the parents' presence at the sex-ed classes would have a "chilling effect on the educational process."
"If you're in a classroom and you want to have a frank discussion among your peers, with whom you've developed trust, and you're going to have Johnny Smith's mother sitting in the corner, you're not going to be as honest," he said.
Parents who are concerned about the new curriculum because they think it favors a homosexual agenda and encourages promiscuity said keeping them out of the classroom when the new sex-ed curriculum is being taught is "a big mistake."
"There isn't anything in the school curriculum that parents should not be able to go and hear for themselves," said Michelle Turner, president of Citizens for a Responsible Curriculum (CRC). "If the school feels that parents shouldn't be in the classroom, then that's a red flag for parents."
Russ Henke, the county's health education coordinator, said parents are usually shut out of classrooms.
"There are particular times of the year, during National Education Week, that we invite the parents in, but it's not something we have as far as a general open classroom," he said.
In November, the county school board voted unanimously to approve a tryout of the new curriculum in three high schools and three middle schools.
The curriculum, which was slightly revised last month, defines one's sexual identity as including gender identity, which is "a person's internal sense of knowing whether he or she is male or female." The instruction also includes the statement that "most experts in the field have concluded that sexual orientation is not a choice."
Also, households with same-sex parents are identified as one type of nine families. Next to that listing, a new phrase has been inserted as instruction to teachers -- not students. It reads in parentheses: "This should not be interpreted as same-sex marriage."
An explicit warning to teachers also has been added in a section that discusses sexual identity and orientation.
"No additional information, interpretation or examples are to be provided by the teacher," the warning states.
Mrs. Turner said she was in favor of parents sitting in on class sessions that their children don't attend.
"A child might not feel comfortable, particularly in discussion, if their parent is sitting right there," she said. "They don't necessarily need to be in their child's classroom."
Christine Grewell, co-founder of TeachtheFacts.org (TTF), which is in favor of the new sex-ed instruction, disagreed.
"It's a controversial subject, you've got a lot of parents who are very vocal on either side, and maybe [the schools are] just trying to maintain calm," she said.
The pilot classes will begin Thursday. After the pilot classes conclude later this month, a citizens advisory committee will collect feedback from students, teachers and parents and issue final recommendations to the county school board.
The school board will vote on countywide implementation in the summer or fall.
Under pressure from the CRC, the schools last month removed a sentence in the curriculum that stated: "Sex play with friends of the same gender is not uncommon during early adolescence."
The schools also removed a statement that said that students would "discuss how you develop your sexual identity."

... more at linked article

Gotta love a curricululm that can't even be taught with parents in the classroom.

I don't care how they do it, be it the use of the typical focus group setting with the special mirrors, or something similar, if parents want to see what is going on in the classrooms during these sessions, they must be given a way to make sure that the education their children are recieving is meeting community standards.

This is another great case of liberalism run amok. Students rights are more important -- in the eyes of those pursuing this agenda -- than the rights of the parents who are told that they must send their children to these mandatory classes, or, if they somehow are allowed to opt their children out, must do so in a vacuum of first hand knowledge of what is really going on in the classes.

Montgomery County, Maryland, must figure out that involving parents in the education of their children is a good thing, especially in this area.

Never mind the almost obligatory joke that could be inserted about the fact that many of the parents could probably use the education in this area anyway.

politics

Locked Post

Advanced Search

Watch this post

Do not email me updates for this post Email me updates for this post

Successfully updated karma reason!

I would say, "Fine, parents aren't allowed? Then students shouldn't be allowed either."

It's pretty idiotic to consider sex education classes too "adult" for adults.

If the ability to talk frankly with parents seems to be the problem, shouldn't the school be encouraging open dialogue, instead of stifling it? We keep hearing educators whining that they aren't the parents and shouldn't be expected to be such. I guess the sex ed fascist in Montgomery County would rather be everyone's parent than have to actually teach the kids.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Zoomba

Join Date 11/2002

+114

I have experienced first-hand the negative effects of allowing parents into the instructional classroom setting. It comes in whenever a parent disagrees with a point for whatever reason, or feels they know more than the teacher. They interrupt constantly and agrue. This distracts the students even under the best of conditions, and more often than not ruins the lesson being held as the teacher spends more time trying to appease the parents than necessarily teaching the subject.

It gets infinitely worse if the topic is as controversial as sex ed. You get the conservative parents yelling their heads off as soon as anything objectionable gets said. This completely destroys the classroom setting.

On the topic specifically of sex ed, yes it's true... having a parent in the room KILLS most students desire to be open and honest and ask actual questions on a subject. Most of the kids I knew when I was learning about the birds and the bees wouldn't approach the subject with their parents with a ten foot pole, it made them supremely uncomfortable and if they didn't have another person to ask questions to (i.e. the sex ed teacher) things could have gotten bad.

The issue isn't about the material being too much for adults to handle, it's about attempting to create an environment in which kids can learn about the subject and ask questions without fear of parental judgement and punishment. If a parent objects to the school taking this role, then it is their right to remove their kids from the class and educate them themselves in a way they deem appropriate.

But in this day and age where parents are either too ignorant or bashful to talk about it with their kids, the schools have to step in and offer the education they may not be getting at home. The role of the schools is to supplement the education kids receive at home, to fill in the gaps that their parents can't. If a parent can't teach their kids about the birds and the bees, then it falls to the school. If you are personally outraged at the chosen curriculum, then either put up (teach your kids at home) or shut up.

And don't let parents into these classes, it will absolutely ruin them. How many of you were completely open with your parents and the parents of your friends about sex when you were 13 or 14?

Successfully updated karma reason!

Cordelia

Join Date 07/2002

I think Zoomba makes some excellent points here. As a child I would much rather have remained ignorant than have my father sitting in on sex ed classes. Kids are supposed to be able to ask questions. Any questions. Undoubtedly stupid questions. Having any parent in the classroom would inhibit that ability.

And why in the world would parents want to sit in on that lecture? If they want to control what their kids are learning about sex, why not teach them at home? In my day, at least, we had to have a signed permission slip to be allowed to take the class. If our parents refused then we could go sit in the library for the duration of the class.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I agree with Zoomba. First, I don't think these kids are being FORCED into participating in this curriculum. Parents always have the right to say "no...I don't want my child in class for that part of the lesson" or something...especially when its on such a sensitive topic.

I think I would invite the parents to an informational meeting--show them the curriculum, let them know how it's going to be taught and discussed, etc. But allowing those parents into the classroom for the lesson is not going to allow those kids to talk freely and ask those important questions they might need to ask of the teacher.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I think that custodial parents should have full time access to their students' classrooms except in extenuating circumstances, and it shouldn't be limited to sex ed classes. I agree with those who say the school's disallowing parents should send up SERIOUS red flags; if a child needs to discuss such issues privately, that's why school counselors are provided.

Successfully updated karma reason!

JillUser

Join Date 11/2003

+17

I think Marcie is dead on. I do want to add that if sex-ed class curriculum is presented to me and it includes homosexual content, I will opt to not have my kids attend. I feel that only normal sexual information should be presented and then the kids can be told that they can meet with a counselor if they have any questions or concerns. I, as a parent, am going to be very open with my kids but also let them know that they can go to a counselor with anything they feel uncomfortable talking about with their parents.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Ooph.

Think you just opened a big can of worms there Jill.

I feel that only normal sexual information should be presented

What is normal? Who should decide? If someone in the classroom has two fathers or two mothers living together harmoniously, won't they become confused if that isn't taught to be acceptable or "normal?"

While I personally have a problem with homosexuality itself, and believe it to be unhealthy, for a number of reasons, I don't know how to, or if there even is a way, satisfactorily solve such a problem for all sides. I don't want my children to be taught or encouraged to try homosexual acts or get into such a mindset. However, I have no problem with homosexuals, and have a number of friends here at the university, including an old roommate, that are themselves attracted to the same sex. Something such as this raises a number of problems.

Regardless, and back on topic, I think it completely unacceptable that parents are excluded from the classroom. While you make many good points Zoomba, as does Marcie, I still believe a parent should have the right to check on the state-provided schooling payed for with their taxes. The only way to really see what is being taught, and how, is to sit-in yourself. I know from personal experience that information can, and sometimes is, be twisted until it is acceptable for one group, parents in particular when trying to learn about their child's classroom and teacher, then turned right back around and taught completely differently to the students.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Zoomba

Join Date 11/2002

+114

Having parents present ruins the value a sex-ed class has for the students. It is no longer an open atmosphere for questions or comments. I'm not saying keep parents out of the schools period, just not that particular class. You have to weigh the benefits versus the consequences. There are no benefits to the students having a parent present.

Like I said, if a parent doesn't like the way it's setup or being taught, they should pull their kids out and teach them themselves. They shouldn't be able to micromanage what is taught in schools. The group that take offense to things like this are usually in the minority. It's not fair to have the concerns and morals of the minority dictate what is available to the majority. Like I said, if you don't like it, pull your kid, but leave the parents and students who want this new system alone.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I think I would invite the parents to an informational meeting--show them the curriculum, let them know how it's going to be taught and discussed, etc. But allowing those parents into the classroom for the lesson is not going to allow those kids to talk freely and ask those important questions they might need to ask of the teacher.

This is a good idea, in a school where there is good communication between teachers and parents. However, that's not always the case.

Should any kid be told that his or her parents are not welcome, NO! It should never be the school's place to decide in what areas the parents are "failing the kids", then unilaterally make decisions from there.

If parents are being disruptive, then of course, they should be removed (just as a disruptive student should be). Parents need to be informed that, while they are welcome to attend the class, they are there as observers only.

Why should the schools further drive a wedge in communications between children and parents.

I'll tell you what schools. If I have no business in a classroom, then you have no business with my kids in your school (or the money you receive for them being a student there).

If you think our being there will be disruptive, try telling me and my wife that you have more right to be with our kids than we do. We'll show your fascist, anti-family butt the true meaning of the word, "Disruptive"!!!

Successfully updated karma reason!

Zoomba

Join Date 11/2002

+114

A parent's mere presence in that class would destroy the open atmosphere that is so desperately needed. You forget what it's like to be a teenager don't you Ted? Would you ask ANY questions about sex if your Mom was sitting at the back of the room... watching... listening...

You don't seem to understand that as a parent just being there is a huge influence that will alter your child's behavior. By being there, you may satisfy your personal need to exercise your rights as a parent, but have you done your child or any child in that room any favors? Have you helped the process? Furthered their knowledge or education? Or are you just there because you feel its your right and are opposed to the whole thing more on principle than because it's actually a bad educational policy?

You have every right to determine how your kids learn about sex, you're the parent and that's entirely your right, but if you step into that classroom to observe, you're affecting how any number of other parents may wish for their kids to be taught. What if Sue Smith's Mom thinks having an open forum like that is essential to her daughter by allowing her to ask questions she doesn't want Mom (or her friends' mom) to hear? Unless this is something a MAJORITY of parents in the district disagree with (I'm talking a serious majority, not the vocal minority that normally gets in a tissy about this stuff), you should respect the decisions of other parents as you would wish yours respected and take your kids out of the class.

Does this policy harm the students? Does such a learning environment prevent them from learning? Does it stifle or chill the educational process? Or does it rub raw against your expectations? What harm is there in having this safe haven for questions? If it is objectionable then you should opt-out, but don't ruin the opportunity for those who want to take advantage of it.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Not surprising. There has been a long slide from public education to public child rearing, and this is just another symptom. I'm not saying that it is a great conspiracy, though many have openly proposed such.

When I was in school great efforts were made to overcome the heritage and morality of my family and community. I dealt with teachers who felt it was their duty to "re-educate" me on a social level, as if they were 19th century, indian reservation school marms...

I never spit in a teacher's face as a child, but had I to do it over again there are several I would. It's long past time to crush this trend of using public schools to indoctrinate and "de-program" traditional values.

Successfully updated karma reason!

"What harm is there in having this safe haven for questions?"

The harm? Well, for starters the insipid idea that parents are not a safe haven. This further stresses the idea that parents can't be trusted. Such MORONIC, hippy-leftover ideas have been discarded in fighting drugs. Now, open-ness and parents knowing what their kids are doing is what is important.

Then, when your kid comes home pregnant, or with an STD, is that wonderful "safe haven" of the school system going to care for them? Hell no, more likely they will ostracize them like a delinquent as I saw happen to girls who got pregnant in high school.

The schools don't take responsibility for the kid's actions, so the parents remain responsible for the results of the school's negiligent moral education. So they injustly remove the parents from the system.

They don't even take responsibility when pervert educators take advantage of this bullshit "Don't trust your parents" environment that schools like to prop up. How often do we hear of teachers sexually abusing kids, showing them porno movies, etc? That is the people who REALLY benefit from this bullshit "safe haven". When it is discovered? The school system washes their hands of it and disclaims responsibility.

Successfully updated karma reason!

This is just the "us vs. them" attitude fostered with this kind of swill. Again, it works from the assumption that us parents are failing our kids and it is up to the white horsed "heroes" of the school to ride in and save our kids from us.

In one of my articles I wrote a bunch of sayings. A few of them was

"Basic rule of thumb: If you’re afraid to tell me about it, you probably shouldn’t be doing it."Link

Guess what, I tell my kids that BECAUSE I remember what it was like being a teenager. If you aren't mature enough to talk about sex with your parents then you SURE aren't mature enough to be having sex.

Everyone talks as if teens are a lost cause. As if they are mindless penises and vaginas walking around with no brain. I think that is one of the most incidious lies we tell our kids... and I will not lie to my kids!! To teach them anything less than "it's not ok" is to teach them that it is! Of course, backing that up with why is essential also. Sorry to burst your bubble, but most sex education classes teach neither.

The truth is, sex among teenagers is self destructive behavior. With what other self destructive behavior does our schools take a Monty Pythonesque "wink wink; nudge nudge" attitude? NONE.

You can lie to your kids if you want. You can even encourage the school to lie to them. As for me and my wife, our kids are OUR responsibilty, the schools are there to ASSIST us. The second they think they are there to do it for us, they cross a line that I (for one) refuse to allow them to cross

Successfully updated karma reason!

"As for me and my wife, our kids are OUR responsibilty, the schools are there to ASSIST us. The second they think they are there to do it for us, they cross a line that I (for one) refuse to allow them to cross"

And as I said above, they only play at taking on our responsibility. The moment the kid has a "problem", they say immediately it isn't their responsibility to raise our children.

They accept no responsibility for the consequences of their guidance, so they shouldn't be allowed to guide. It's never their responsbility when teachers sexually abuse students, kids murder their classmates in school, and that there is no improvement in the problems of drugs and sex. Now, they say WE can't be trusted to be involved in sex ed class???

It's about time we re-evaulated the amount of "responsibility" the public school system needs, and what they should be HELD responsible for.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I think it was Ayn Rand who said this (and if she didn't then, I'm saying it now):

"Parents in the future will not only allow the government to take their kids and raise them, they will insist the government does so."

Does anyone else see the roots of "Anthem" in any of this?

Successfully updated karma reason!

"Parents in the future will not only allow the government to take their kids and raise them, they will insist the government does so."

Careful, John Galt and all the rest of the Ayn Rand worshippers around here will get all uppity. I don't suppose they could lynch you though, that would be socialist...

It does seem an odd statement from an author who thought so little of socialism. If you ever verify the provenance of that quote I'd love a citiation.

Successfully updated karma reason!

kingbee

Join Date 04/2004

+42

having parents involved in school athletic contests has worked out pretty well. if nothing else, it's great for crosstraining (soccer/ultimate street fighting, baseball/ultimate street fighting, etc.)

Successfully updated karma reason!

I can understand some reasonings. Such as the fact that kids aren't going to be feeling comfortable at all if their parents are in the room. And more so when you consider that not all the kids would be bringing parents to class. The kid whose parent's come will stick out like a sore thumb and they could pay a price for it. I think keep the parents out and instead give them a handout on what is in the curriculum. If parents are concerned enough, surely they would take the time to talk with the teacher to go over what's going to be taught to their kids. So I think the teacher, if possible, should give out a handout to their student's parents with the curriculum to be covered. Any remaining apprehension could easily be dealt with with a simple conversational phone call. But if the parents are desiring to sit in the sex-ed session, they should be prepared to sit in the math and english sessions.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Excellent questions. I don't think schools should be the standard bearers for morality, especially since SCOTUS has repeatedly rejected the rights of Christian values to be used as the basis for such standards. While I think sex ed should be the responsibility of parents in an ideal society, too many parents abdicate, and the schools do their best to fill in the gaps.

So then, when sex ed IS presented, the right of a parent to opt out should be clearly stated, and moral judgements should be, for the most part, left out of the discussion. The purpose of sex ed is SUPPOSED to be to prevent the spread of STD's and teenage pregnancies, not to indoctrinate students to the values of the curriculum's author (the same, I must note, applies to "abstinence only" sex ed programs).

By federalizing schools, we are setting ourselves on a VERY slippery slope. Such federalization is GROSSLY unconstitutional, and the main purpose of education is being lost in all this mess. Education should have the purpose of providing our students with the tools they need to succeed in life, it should not be the political forum it has become.

Successfully updated karma reason!

After all, it takes a village to raise a child...parents need not apply.

Parent's now a days want to dissolve all responsibility and blame it on the state. What happened to responsibility? Pretty soon they will have a sex-ed marshall sitting in back of the class to prevent parents from entering. I mean do we really need to waste our time with this?

Successfully updated karma reason!

Zoomba

Join Date 11/2002

+114

I get the feeling that I'm being intentionally misunderstood

I'm NOT saying the schools should take over this education from the parents. What I am saying is that if you as a parent disagree with the curriculum, you should opt your children out. Take them home and teach them yourselves. I think this is the best approach personally. What these school courses are for however are for kids who can't get the education at home, or who are not yet comfortable speaking with their parents about it. Saying that they SHOULD be able to talk to their parents about it is nice and all, but it denies reality in many cases. Sex is a very uncomfortable topic for kids to discuss with their parents. Saying "If they can't talk to me about it, they shouldn't be doing it" is great, but denies the fact that kids do stupid things. So they can be stupid and completely ignorant of any consequences, or be stupid and at least have the brains to put on a rubber

If you want to opt-out for your child, fine, great, wonderful... but don't deny other children (whom you have NO RIGHT to dictate terms to) a forum they may otherwise not have. This should not replace parent duties and responisiblities, but sadly many parents abdicated this responsibility shortly after birth. Going off and saying that schools shouldn't even touch the subject is a head-in-the-sand approach. Just because your kids have have responsibile parents doesn't mean everyone else does. I would rather them get the education in the public school system than not at all.

It's a great sentiment to limit schools to only the bare minimum lessons (reading, writing, arithmatic) it denies the fact that many kids now aren't getting the lessons in morality, in ethics or in just plain proper behavior at home that they need. If parents aren't willing to do their duties, someone has to step in and try and help these poor kids out. You may be a wonderful parent, but it's not fair for you to try and shut-down programs and curriculums that don't mesh with your personal beliefs since you can opt your child out of them. What you feel steps on your venue as a parent may cover essential topics that other kids aren't getting at home.

You can teach your kids however you like, but it's not fair to take your values and try and force them on other kids as well.

Successfully updated karma reason!

An update on this story. From The Washington Post, headline is linked.

Suit Planned Over Sex-Ed Program in Montgomery

By Lori Aratani
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, May 3, 2005; Page B01

Two groups angered that Montgomery County public schools' new health curriculum includes a video demonstration on how to put on a condom and discussions about homosexuality say they expect to file a lawsuit in U.S. District Court today to block the lessons from being taught in Maryland's largest public school system.
John Garza, vice president of Citizens for a Responsible Curriculum, said his group -- along with Virginia-based Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays and Gays -- is seeking a temporary injunction to block teaching of the new program, which is being piloted in six Montgomery County schools this month and will be expanded to all schools next year.
"We tried to put off this as long as possible," said Steve Fisher, spokesman for Citizens for a Responsible Curriculum. "We were so hoping that our own school system would talk to us about our valid concerns. They should have sat down with us instead of ignoring us, but apparently the Board of Education is going to move forward."
In November, the Montgomery County school board approved a health curriculum that incorporated changes in the eighth and 10th grades. Health lessons were redesigned to allow teachers to discuss homosexuality with eighth-grade students. Before the change, teachers could respond to questions but not initiate a conversation about the topic. Changes at the 10th-grade level included the addition of a seven-minute video that discusses abstinence and condoms and includes a segment during which a woman uses a cucumber to demonstrate how to put on a condom.
The lessons are part of a semester-long health education program that also includes instruction on peer pressure and safety and injury prevention. Parents must sign permission forms for their children to take part in these particular segments, and they can sit in on the lessons if space is available. Families also can opt out and choose an alternative, including an abstinence-only program.

... more at linked article

As usual, it seems that the answer is find a lawyer and sue someone.

And by the way, I've heard mixed reports on the ability of parents to opt the children out of this particular curriculum. If it truly is opt-in, that's fine, IF THE PARENTS FULLY UNDERSTAND AND COMPREHEND WHAT THE MATERIALS AND CURRICULUM ARE.

Honestly, it seems that the best approach would have been to offer several "classes" for the parents to attend in advance so that the parents could sit through the sessions and really know what was going on and help to refine the curriculum.

As always, it's seems that the educators have decided in advance to do what they want, and not necessarily to honor the wishes of the parents.

Successfully updated karma reason!

More information found in The Washington Times notes that apparently the Montgomery County Public Schools spokesman Brian Edwards has come out and indicated that "Parents of kids in those classes will be allowed [in]"

That contradicts his earlier statements, and may be coming in response to publicity received over the initial statements.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.

There are many great features available to you once you register, including:

Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting and posting on the forums.
Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
It's simple, and FREE!

View all recent posts

Mark all posts as read Delete cookies created by the forum Return to Top

Stardock Forums v Server Load Time: Page Render Time: