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terpfan1980

Join Date 08/2004

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Witch demands to lead prayers in Virginia County Meetings

Continues law-suit claiming religious discrimination

Heard much discussion of this today on local AM talker WMAL AM 630.

Article for point of reference (from Washington Post), headline linked.

Wiccan Bias Suit Against Va. County Dismissed

By Jerry Markon
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 15, 2005; Page B03

A federal appeals court yesterday upheld the way Chesterfield County conducts the invocation at its Board of Supervisors meetings, dismissing a lawsuit filed by a local Wiccan priestess who said she was excluded from leading the brief prayer.
County officials had told Cynthia Simpson that she could not be on the list of religious leaders allowed to deliver the invocation because it was limited to members of "Judeo-Christian" religions. Backed by civil liberties groups, she filed a federal lawsuit in 2002 alleging that the policy amounted to religious discrimination.
Simpson has said that Wicca -- interchangeable, she said, with witchcraft -- is a peaceful religion that focuses on reverence and respect for the cycles of nature. She said she wanted to offer the prayer to help dispel images of wicked witches on broomsticks.
A federal judge in Richmond backed Simpson, ruling in 2003 that the Chesterfield board was discriminating against minority religions and violating the constitutional mandate for separation of church and state. The judge ordered the county to change the policy to include all faiths or to stop using it altogether.
But the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit reversed that decision yesterday, ruling that Chesterfield's policy complies with Supreme Court requirements for legislative prayer because it does not advance or disparage any particular religious faith.
The decision by a three-judge panel, written by Judge J. Harvie Wilkinson III, says Chesterfield, a suburban county south of Richmond, has allowed a diverse group of religious leaders to conduct the prayer, including a Muslim imam who was involved in giving an invocation at a board meeting shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
Civil liberties groups criticized the decision. "This is a deeply disturbing ruling," said Kent Willis, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia, one of two groups that brought the lawsuit.

... much more at linked article

Other source for information above: Richmond Times-Dispatch

which includes this note:

But Wiccan priestess Cynthia Simpson said she intends to renew her appeal in the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.
"I'm eager to appeal," Simpson said. "The ACLU is eager to appeal. We still think we're right."
The Virginia branch of the American Civil Liberties Union came to aid Simpson's case after she was rejected from joining the list of eligible clergy who may be invited to say the prayer during supervisors' meetings. The county policy limits that list to religions that follow Judeo-Christian traditions.
Simpson's belief in Wicca holds among other things that the deity is not separate from humanity and the world but that human beings and everything in and on the Earth are divine.
Kent Willis, ACLU of Virginia executive director, said the group was disappointed by the ruling, "not just for Wiccans, but also for all the other religions excluded from participation in the Chesterfield County prayer ceremonies."
The U.S. founding fathers' "vision of religious equality foresaw a diverse religious landscape in which the government would never show a preference for some religions over others. Unfortunately, this decision allows exactly that to happen."
The Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said yesterday that he was "shocked" by the appellate court's decision. Americans United backed the appeal of Simpson's case along with the ACLU.
"This is a terrible decision," he said. "It allows government officials to engage in rank discrimination against religious minorities that they don't approve of."
But the three-judge panel that decided the Simpson case noted that the list of eligible clergy is a broad cross section of the county's religious groups. That "made plain [the county] was not affiliated with any one specific faith by opening its doors to a wide pool of clergy. The Judeo-Christian tradition is, after all, not a single faith but an umbrella covering many faiths."
Examining the Simpson case using a U.S. Supreme Court opinion about a state legislature's invocation policy, the panel found that because Chesterfield's policy does not "proselytize or advance" any one faith or belief, or "disparage any other," it fits within the Supreme Court's requirements for legislative prayer.
County Attorney Steven L. Micas said, "Chesterfield County's invocation policy was developed shortly after the Supreme Court of the United States established the constitutional ground rules for legislative invocations. Our policy exceeds the inclusiveness standards set by the court."

... more at linked article

Alright folks, who is right on this and who is wrong?

Does this Wiccan deserve to lead prayer, or is she even practicing a religion that is or should be recognized? Is the ACLU wasting time here? (Should they and this individual have to face some sort of penalty for wasting valuable time in the judicial system?)

Where do you stand?

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I stand on this the same place I stand on most issues. Once again it comes down to the smallest jurisdiction possible.

Community standards should decide this one. If the people of the county want a Wiccan to be included on the list of religious leaders who offer prayer, then she should be able to. Apparently the policy as of now is "Judeo-Christian" leaders only, however who set that standard? What is the community or was it a few leaders? Instead of turning to the ACLU and the courts, she should take it to the people. She and others who want more than just Judeo-Christian prayers need to challenge the policy where it was established. Did she even bother challenging it, or did she merely sidestep the people and the community and jump right to the courts to kiss it and make it all better?

While it is the job of the state to temper the whims of the people, it is also the right of the people to not be forced to have standards dictated to them by the state. Instead of whining to the courts, more people should at least try to make things happen the old fashioned way... by working with freedom instead of against it.

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kingbee

Join Date 04/2004

+42

Should they and this individual have to face some sort of penalty for wasting valuable time in the judicial system

the supervisors and the witch should face some sorta penalty for wasting valuable taxpayer money and time holding invocations at their meetings.

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The roots of God and Goddess invocation or prayers or worship or rituals, are a little troubling. We have a situation here in South Africa, where the role is turned around. Now the majority is involved in worship of nature spirits and summoning the wisdom of ancestors, etc. There seems to be a desire on the part of the human race towards restoring of ancient forms of worship. Seriously, if the Catholic Church which constitute 1.1 billion people are allowed to practive Goddess worship, then what is the problem with a little old witch wanting to summon Diana or any other Goddess with way to many mammalian preturberances. I do not think it is ideal, but we are not living in an ideal world, as Jack Nicholson said, "Why can't we all just get along".

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What is it with these damned Wiccans. They're supposed to practice a magick that involves the invocation of the God and Goddess (tho most emphasise the Goddess). Like all Magick, it works best when it's not advertised, when the Rituals don't become a pseudo self-help 'get-in-touch-with-ma-feelins' kind of thing.

I'll grant you that they had something to bitch about when they were being burned on a regular basis (hint to Bush: alternate fuel supply?)- but complaining because they can't lead public prayers?

The silly bitch in question is a Magickian, supposedly, not a mouthpiece for 'Wiccans for Public Office'. By all means let her pursue her form of worship, but perhaps the Goddess needs to remind her that Wicca is an occult craft - and that 'occult' means hidden.

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You seem to be very outspoken.

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