What if it's taken with a digital camera?

Okay, so?
What are we supposed to believe, that 4 planes were NOT hijacked, and that millions of people in Manhattan and the surrounding boroughs DIDN'T witness two of them flying into the towers?
Who gives a shit what this pissant little revisionist, conspiracist, anti-establishment site has to say? The Towers fell; thousands died in an instant.

I mean, if there was no "inferno" what was all that smoke I saw on the news, roiling out of the gaping holes??

Here's the scoop, R-H: they don't like Bush; Bush got mega-props for his handling of 9/11. For that, they'll try anything they can to minimize the effects of what happened that day.
They probably think 6 million Jews just changed their names and moved to Chicago, too.

The towers fell, man....as a result of two large objects---objects hijacked by Islamic zealots and containing dozens of innocent people---crashing into them at high speeds. That's all I need to know. Who gives crap what "really" did it? Go spin your conspiracies in your corner, R-H, if that's what you want to do.

"Holocaust, the almost complete destruction of Jews in Europe by Nazi Germany and its collaborators during World War II (1939-1945). The leadership of Germany’s Nazi Party ordered the extermination of 5.6 million to 5.9 million Jews (see National Socialism). Jews often refer to the Holocaust as Shoah (from the Hebrew word for “catastrophe” or “total destruction”).
Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2003. © 1993-2002 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved."

I'll stick with the official word of historians rather than conspiracy nutcases, thank you, R-H.

It doesn't really matter to people like rightwinger what really happened. They're just glad they have someone else to hate.
The tragedy aside, It's human nature to want to know the facts behind events. I don't think rieki (Or anyone else) in their right mind
would dispute that 9/11 or the holocaust really happened, They're just analyzing the evidence to figure out what EXACTLY did happen.
It would be nice if Americans could see past the tragedy and hate, And start using their heads. There really is nothing wrong with opening a website that analyzes data and disputes certain reports of what occured on 9/11, Is there? Or a person such as Rieki asking wether or not there could have been something else that contributed to the 9/11 tragedy. If there were something else, Wouldn't you want to know about it? I know I would. It doesn't change what happened, Doesn't bring back the ones that died, But it does give us some insight as to what happened exactly and why.
If everyone involved in a little investigative endeavours was branded a Loony Conspiratist Revoloutionist Pinko Nazi Communist, The World would become a very dark place in a very short while, With only the Leaders of Nations acting as a source of fact. Then again, I guess it's just easier and more healing to just - hate.

"Don't believe everything you read in the Papers."

Yeah large percentage change...but so what? Even that is still the systematic extermination of 1.1 million people.

Yeah, this is true...when Pol Pot did it, it was a terrible tragedy. Somehow the NEW total of 1 million lives lost instead of six million makes it more palatable for those on the Left, because they hate the Jews and Isreal.

Don' be a hatah, R-H, Kandor.....

Does that make you feel better R-H? LW has gone and blown the lid off the whole sting operation! She exposed it all! Way to go, LW, way to go.....!
Here's your Pulitzer!

Yes, it's The Big, Bad, "Jewish Conspiracy" thing again....you know, that shadowy, world-domination thing that every Jew who's ever lived in the last 6,000 years has known about, but somehow not even one has ever talked about? Damn Jews!

Of course, they're opposed (or ARE they?) in their evil schemes by the Masons and the Bilderbergs and other secret societies with world domination conspiracies of their own, like the Skull and Crossbones (BUSH! BUSH! AAAA!), college fraternities and sororities, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Shriners, Lion's Club, Moose, Eagles, Elks, Ruritan, Grange, country clubs.....the list goes on and on.....

Isn't it amazing how some people disguise their hatred and bigotry with "skepticism"...

Dude of course there was a fire. ?!?!? The question is whether the fire was hot enough to melt steel when people are visible in the huge opening the airplanes made. Fake smoke? Wtf?!? If your parents helped out at ground zero I certainly hope they were wearing filter masks because if not they likely have breathed in a million lifetimes worth of asbestos and mercury.
Disguising hatred and bigotry. Instead of making false red-herring arguments, could you please address the topic? Think of the sequence of events. Planes hit the WTC towers. They mysteriously collapsed (look at the Spain tower fire which burned for over 2 days and NOT collapsing). We're told the fires were so hot the steel girders melted resulting in the total collapse of the buildings. There are images which show people standing in the wall opening which has supposed heat enough to melt steel. I ask how can that be. You call me a biggot and a hater. Make sense? Of course not. Hatred. Hidden. Load' a shite.

Well first off... the pictures may not be clear enough or so far away that we can't tell these poor people were on fire. I think you need to get off your Bush
warpath. TheFazz is right. The Madrid skyscraper may have not collapse because of no explosion or the impact of a jet.
Or it could possibly be that the Spanish have better building techniques than we do. Jeez why dont you try researching your debates before you make a jackass of yourself?

Two interesting posts that really do give weight to my comment of " It would be nice if Americans could see past the tragedy and hate, And start using their heads."

You call people haters then use derogatory terms that give a away your own hate like Touchy - feely goofballs and Islamic Nutbars. I'm really not offended, It's just Ironic. Two Interesting posts.
What does it say when people jump on a thread and start accusing the poster of conspiracy theories, Smearing Bush's policies and accusing him of suggesting that 9/11 was just a fabrication of American Politics? It means they are just as extreme in their political views as the Islamic Fundamentalists are in theirs. Very sad.
The post never suggested anything about Bush, Bush's Incidious involvment in 9/11 or the tragedy's authenticity. It was about the Whys and Hows of the incident. Not that what they (The Fundamentalists) did was excusable or justifiable, The so called stated reasons for thier "Hate" Of Americans is a little left of center.
Alot of other nations support things Arabs don't, They were never a target. If thier hate of our lifestyle was a reason for an attack, That puts every other Western society under the same attack. No attacks on Holland (Legal use of drugs), Canada (Same sex marriage). America is almost a religious state in their politics in comparison to other Nation's lifestyle. At the end of the day it was America's distaste for their lifestyle that gave rise to War. As for hating you because you have a high standard of living, Well that's laughable. You've obviously never been to Quatar, Kuwait. Saudi, Oman, Jordan, The Emirates or Oman. These countries have a higher level of living and more money than any American could ever hope for.

"What does it matter if the support beams melted in the heat or not? The terrorists slammed two planes into the towers and killed a lot of people. All in the name of hate. But it's okay for them."

So basically aslong as they did it in hate, So can Americans. But we aren't haters.

As for little whips comment, Well, She/He is a typical example of why Americans should let off the hate and start using their heads since the post had absoloutly nothing to do with conspiracies, Film making, special effects or Bush policies.

It's ashame really, You're doing your enemies work for you and destroying yourselves while you squabble amongst each other, channeling all your energy in to a war that had nothing to do with 9/11. Meanwhile the culprit runs free, and I'm guessing, Laughing at you.

Yeah, what he said. Have an insightful on me, RW.

Thanks, LW.

"Let me start at the bottom and work my way up....first of all, I agree that the war in Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11...I don't deny, though, that Saddam ultimately deserved what he got. I've said enough on my beliefs on this subject on other posts, so I'm not even going to get into it with you."

Your opinion for what It's worth, Is respected. But since your, Shall I say distaste? Instead of hate, For Arabs in general Stems from a personal attack on your country, What did Saddam ever do to you?

"As to "the culprit" running free...he's a hunted beast, always on the move, slinking like Gollum in caves and bunkers rather than going to weddings and happy gatherings with his fellow zealot nutcases. How free is he? If you consider that freedom, I feel sorry for you."

Permit me a bon mot but that's utter bullshit. No one really knows where Bin Laden lives, And if he is as rich as you so put it in your inital reply, He's probably living in a very nicely equipped Cave. Whatever his living conditions are, he is free.

You somehow interpreted this post of mine "So basically aslong as they did it in hate, So can Americans. But we aren't haters"
with a rebuttle that answers why they hate you, And why you should not stand around and wait for a Nuclear Attack. I'll translate the post for you : Don't call others haters and then brandish your own Hate. Simple enough? Btw, And I'm sure you've heard this before, The States is the only Country ever to have used a Nuclear Weapon. So be careful with those pebbles you're throwing.


"You are touchy-feely goofballs. That's not a hate term. Just because I have an opinion on your attitudes doesn't mean I hate you, though any attack used on a person of liberal attitudes is automatically construed as "hate". It makes it easier for your little minds to grasp, rather than to examine the feebleness and impracticality of your own ideals. You accuse us of closed-mindedness, instead"

If I take a bite of an Eclair, Spit it out and say "That was horrible" "That's got to be the crappiest of all pastries" "It's the Donny Osmond of Baked goods" What do you think my Opinion and feelings towards an Eclair is? I don't like it, I loathe it. Using derofatory and belittling words (Terms seems to upset you) like Touchy, Feely Goofbals, Little minds to grasp and Closed Mindedness can really only belive anyone to believe that you dislike them, Maybe not personally but atleast on every other level. You can't have your hate and eat it, Just be honest.


"From this, I can infer that you haven't seen much from Reiki-House in the past. I have."

That was the original reason behind my first post. You judge the post incorrectly, Inferring things in to it's meaning because you've had "Run - Ins" with the poster before. You just don't like him and have labeled him as you did me because he has different ideas from yourself. So how objectional are you really? No more objectional than the Terrorists that you hate so much.


"And they are Islamic nutbars....there are nutcases in any religion. I calls'em as I sees'em. What would you call people who, in the name of their faith, wrap themselves in dynamite and blow up buses? Or hijack planes and fly them into buildings? Or pack explosives into their cars and drive them into populated areas? I'd sure like to know, because I don't."

As there are "Nutbars" in every religion, There are the "Nutbars" in politics. Same game, different battlefield. When America can say that it is as pure as Snow, With no Skeletons in it's closet, Then we can get self righteous with others. Does it make what happened right? No. Just a serious of wrongs that everyone tried to correct with more wrongs, But that's another story for another time.

"Sometimes hate can be a useful tool. Would the Second World War have been won if we had just scratched our heads, rubbed our chins and tried to "see past the tragedy and hate"?"

So you are hateful or aren't hateful? Because that seems to indicate that you're using hate as a tool for Justice. That's not a Judge, That's a Vigillante. WW II was about the preservation of a way of life. The Nazi's wanted to impose thier ideas on the rest of Europe, The rest Europe didn't like that too much. Thus the fighting. If anyone had any reason to HATE the Nazi's it was the jews, But they were being rapidly anihilated in Death Camps. There are many theories that explain why America entered the War. I'm not going to debate you on them all, But the one I most think is true is because after the attack on Pearl Harbour, America was no longer on the side lines. It had been directly hit, And thus went after those that caused them harm. So it really wasn't hate, It was rebuke at a direct hit. We've already agreed that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, So let's not use that analogy.Enough WW II talk.

"No, we hated the Japanese for what they did, and it got us off our asses and, after a little lost effort in the beginning, beat the shit out of them."
You dropped untested Nuclear Bombs on them, Hardly a fair fight. But again, A disscussion for another day.


"The only difference here is, in that war, we had an honorable enemy; a nation-target that stood and fought, to aim our efforts at, rather than a shadow force of cowards who would rather skulk and ambush innocent people than fight."

Lol, Sorry, But you seem to have lost history somewhere. An honorable enemy that loads it's Aircraft with explosives then Plummets the plane, With the pilot inside, In to an enemy target. Suicide bomber anyone? Of course the Japanese called it Kamakaze to make it more appealing. The whole reason America entered the War is because of Pearl Harbour. An attack on an American Base with not only millitary personel, But also their famillies. Loads of Innocent people died.


"And exactly what would be accomplished by attacking Canada? The US is right next door, and attacking the United States gets more points for the movement."

Attack the Power Plants in Quebec, And watch NewYork State collapse in darkness. You're confusing your Superiority complex with Fact.

"It is laughable. Most Moslems who engage in terrorist activities against the West are college-educated and fairly well-off."

And yet Rightwinger was telling us all that they hated Americans because Americans have a better lifestyle. Can we get the Americans to agree on what's what and what's not please.


"Obviously YOU have never been to those countries, either that or you've never bothered to learn what really goes on. A high percentage of the population of the countries are actually foreign workers (non-nationals) in the oil industry. The government collects much of the revenue, and doles out the money to the lazy populace. Pretty much like every one of the coutnries you mention, with the exception of Jordan, which is a poor country overall."

It's not obvious at all. I can atest to that because I lived in the Middle East for 13 Years in all the countries I mentioned plus a few more. I'm talking about the Ameers, the locals of the country. Not the Foriegners they bring in. The average Bey or Shiekh or Ameer's Lifestyle and wealth could very surpass that of Bush himself. The quality of living in these places is to say the least, Lavish. So please, Keep those results you got off Google to yourself untill you can further inquire about the Poster (Me). In most of the countries I've mentioned the Government is actually a Monarchy, And besides things like Zakkat and El-Farida, Wealth distribution is pretty much the same as anywhere else. You go out, You work, Earn a Wage and pay taxes. You've been reading too many Sindbad Novels. It's certainly no worse than the lazy Gits that slober around on wellfare all their life in The States.