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Join Date 02/2004

My University Produces Idiots

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This link will bring you to an article in the University of Minnesota's M Magazine. Here are a few select quotes from it that led me to write a fairly discouraged letter to the editor which I have pasted below as well as the response to the letter.

Selected Qoutes:
When you have serious discussion with your friends, what do you talk about?
"We talk about politics, religion, boys, our families, shopping, parties, clothes...." says Evenson. "We debate little things [in politics]. Like some of us are Democrats and some are Republicans, but we all agree that Condoleeza Rice is cool.... We'll have a conversation and we're talking about different views, but we aren't trying to sway people to the other side."

So let me get this straight, when you have "serious discussions" you talk about shopping, parties, and clothes? Geebus! I'd hate to hear a casual conversation.

What do you see as the greatest challenge facing your generation?
Evenson thinks the biggest challenge is finding a good leader for her generation. "You don't hear anything from our generation [yet]," she says. "We'll have to wait until we're about 30 to see who's going to be a leader."
She's also concerned about increasingly violent and seemingly bizarre crimes. "Most everyone has this moral sense of dignity and common sense," she says. "But then there are these freaky people... If that's all that makes the headlines, maybe there's a [real moral problem in society]."

Damn, it's always those "freaky people" I wish we could just deport them or something.

How do you feel about the war in Iraq, as well as the potential for a draft?
Evenson's opinions have varied, but her current stance is firm. "Since we're already over in Iraq, I think you have to support it, because we have people over there who are dying, and if you don't support it, that means you're not valuing their lives." She says that during her junior year of high school, when the war began, she "wasn't all for it," but now that our troops are there, we "have to deal with it. There's no point protesting it, because that's... a waste of time."

As I point out in my letter, that's just horrifying flawed logic. If you don't support a cause in which people are willing to die for then you don't value their lives? I value a lot of people's lives whose causes I don't support.

What are your thoughts on career vs. family after you finish with school?
Evenson's plan? "I would like to work for about two years--more or less--and then get married, have maybe three kids, and never work again. That's what my mom did. I want to stay at home, volunteer at the kids' school, etc. We're talking about the soccer mom thing, only without the minivan.
"I envision a nice life. I'll be happy."

Nice attitude, obviously someone is working very hard at getting their MRS. Degree. Pathetic.

LETTER TO THE EDITOR:
Dear M Magazine,

I was skimming through the Spring 2005 edition when I came across the Class of 2008 article. In the context of an issue celebrating the strides Title IX has made for the female student athletes in Minnesota and nation wide, I was very disheartened by the responses expressed by LynAnne Evenson in the Q & A session printed in the Class of 2008 article. Now I might even be pleased that M didnít select the most intelligent and articulate students they could find to show off the brilliant minds the University if producing, but the responses from Evenson definitely do arouse some curiosity as to how these two students were selected as representatives of the freshman class.

Responding to the question of "What do you see as the greatest challenge facing your generation?" Evenson says that she feels some confidence in the goodness of people as a whole "But then there are these freaky people. If that's all that makes the headlines, maybe there's a [real moral problem in society]." Could you elaborate on who these "freaky" people are so I can do my best to avoid them in the future? This "unique" (for lack of a better word) logic continues in her next response as she answers how she feels about the war and the possibility of a draft. This quote is the one two that M chose to highlight in the article. "Since weíre already over in Iraq, I think you have to support it, because we have people over there who are dying, and if you donít support it, that means youíre not valuing their lives." Huh? I'm really trying to do the math on this one, but it just doesn't add up. So what she's telling us is that if people are dying for a cause and you don't support it you're not valuing their lives? I suppose it would therefore be safe to assume that the anti-war movement, which wishes to bring the soldiers home alive isn't valuing their lives because they don't support the war? Well, Evenson says she "wasn't all for the it," at first, but now she has come to the conclusion that "There's no point in protesting it, because that's a waste of time." Well I'd really hate to waste the time of such a bright student who clearly is too busy investing herself in her future to be bothered by the troubles of the world. "I would like to work for about two years more or less---and then get married, have maybe three kids, and never work again..We're talking about the soccer mom thing, only without the minivan. I envision a nice life. I'll be happy." Please thank Evenson for reminding us that Feminism is about choice. Her future of volunteering at the kids' school aside, what I don't understand is why the University of Minnesota chose to send me a publication that profiles the life of a student who shows no interest in making use of her education and then has the nerve to ask me for money to support the U. I envision a happy life too, one in which the University doesn't remind me how many students it produces that seem to lack any redeeming character every time I write another check for my loans.

Thank you,
(Suspeckted) UMD Class of 2003

RESPONSE TO LETTER:
Hi (Suspeckted),

Thought I'd send a quick response to your note, as I am the person who wrote the Class of 2008 story (as well as Title IX) and probably know the most about it.

Thanks for your letter; we appreciate your detailed and obviously heartfelt response. Just to let you know, we were excited about the idea of following two students throughout the course of the year to get their take on what it's like to be a freshman at the U, plus follow their ups and downs, etc. We didn't have students in mind, although we were searching for some diversity. Ultimately, I used the names of a few students that the Office of Admissions provided me, talked to them on the phone, and hoped that they'd be suitable for the long haul. Once I did the first interviews with them, there wasn't much turning back.

Not to defend LynAnne, because I certainly don't agree with all of her opinions and her take on life, but she is just one person--one fairly random person--who I thought was a good voice for the mix, given that she's a first-generation college student from an inner-city school. Quite obviously, those are just her opinions, and not representative of the whole student body, either here or at any of the other campuses. I'm also guessing that--agree with her or not--she's probably not the only student who feels that way about the war. Who knows, her opinions may change again in a year or two.

We certainly had some mixed feelings about her responses and how they'd be taken, and that's just a little bit of the background and rationale. Again, thanks for your note and your time. Cheers.

--Rick

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Sus~

I didn't know you went to UMD. I have a friend in medical school there, and her husband is in pharmacy school (is that how you say it?)

I myself went to UM-Morris my freshman year of college. My dad was dying and I didn't have a good experience, but if I try to imagine myself there in even the best of conditions, I don't think I would have stayed. I've never seen such a big bunch of liberal morons stuck together in one place. After a year hiatus, I went to private school...not the best financially, but it seemed like there were more logical minds there.

So...anyway...that's my deal. Go Bulldogs!

Moo

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Ted, I agree with the first three points you highlight in the article. Education is wasted on these idiots and I for one favour raising entrance standards. It's even worse here in Canada, where we don't use SATs for admission; it's all done by high school marks. However, I can't see how you view a young woman's goal to get married, have a family, and focus on raising her children rather than adding to the GDP as pathetic. You say feminism is about choice, yet you seem critical of someone who aspires to focus on raising her children. I don't understand that. Education is for education's sake; it's not job training. You say the young lady proposes doing nothing with her education, but I think her future husband and children - and society as a whole - will benefit from having and educated mind in the household, regardless of how much cash she makes.

I can see within the rest of the context of this article how you might pause and wonder why tax dollars are supporting the education of these airheads for four years when they seem more interested in boys and shopping anyway, and how they're not going to use their education in an *economically quantifiable* productive manner. That's a fair question. Maybe I'm not clear on what you find pathetic, but if you are so "persuaded" by liberal ideology that you think a girl who wants to get married, have kids, and stay at home and raise them is pathetic, then maybe you should re-evaluate your....err....values.

David St. Hubbins

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While I agree with most of your point about flawed logic in her opinions about the war, I think you read too much into the "freaky people" and "serious discussion" statements.

I don't think she really meant anything by "freaky people", only that there is a majority of society that is good, and a small minority that has no problem chopping you up and keeping you in a freezer for 20 years. As far as "serious discussions" go, she at least mentioned politics and actual important issues in her response.

As far as the whole marriage thing goes, I think she's going to be fairly disappointed if she thinks she won't ever have to work again after having her kids...She's obviously planning for a rich husband, so that is kind of disheartening to read.

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I can't see how you view a young woman's goal to get married, have a family, and focus on raising her children rather than adding to the GDP as pathetic. You say feminism is about choice, yet you seem critical of someone who aspires to focus on raising her children. I don't understand that. Education is for education's sake; it's not job training. You say the young lady proposes doing nothing with her education, but I think her future husband and children - and society as a whole - will benefit from having and educated mind in the household, regardless of how much cash she makes.

I have to agree with David on this point that her goal here is not pathetic. Her experiences and education will do her children well.

I can however, see the reasoning behind Suspeckted's anger, should I say anger SuS? The person who did the magazine article could have chosen someone who was more eloquent and who looked at things more deeply than this young lady does. I believe that's why Sus is upset, and she does represent the college he's attending. So, her voice will be assumed to be the voice of the entire university populace, like it or not!

If the magazine really wanted to have someone more focussed and less controversial they would have looked for their answers elsewhere. In the end it's really all about creating controversy and selling the publication isn't it? Nothing else.

Unfortunately this young lady also made women look bad because it seems that all women in college talk about is "shopping, parties and clothes"! Let's face it people, with all that's out there in the media world, we shouldn't really be surprised at this inference. The focus of advertising agencies and all media in general seems to think that women are only interested in shopping, parties and clothes!

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Another thought, I wonder how old she is? We might just have to think her response is due to her age as well and that she's still looking at life through "rose-tinted glasses"!

I'm sure her views on life will be a lot different when she's older and has more life-experiences under her belt.

Plus, with the way these media people do their edits, who knows if what they said she said, is how she said it?!

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Thanks for the comments everyone, I included the follow up letter at the bottom of my responses.

I myself went to UM-Morris my freshman year of college.

Yeah, I never really heard very good things about Morris, for one reason inparticular, there's nothing there besides the school.

I've never seen such a big bunch of liberal morons stuck together in one place.

While I suppose I'm a liberal, I hope I'm not a moron. The "idiot" in the headline title was supposed to gain attention towards someone I thought shouldn't be used as an example of the average University student as I know many would I hold in much higher regard.

You say feminism is about choice, yet you seem critical of someone who aspires to focus on raising her children. I don't understand that. Education is for education's sake; it's not job training. You say the young lady proposes doing nothing with her education, but I think her future husband and children - and society as a whole - will benefit from having and educated mind in the household, regardless of how much cash she makes.

I'm sooooo glad you made this comment so I can address how you (quite fairly) may have misread me. I'm not trying to come down on her for choosing to be a stay at home mother, and I certainly don't want to come across as someone who suggests someone's worth should be judged by how much money they bring in to a household otherwise I would be severely limiting my own worth. My issue with her here is that her comments lead me to believe that she's not in college to get an education (whether she will "use" it or not) it seems like she is in college to find a husband...hence the degree of MRS. You're absolutely right, everyone may benefit from her education and we all deserve the same opportunities to pursue an education. However, I feel justified in criticizing someone who seems so content with working just as long as they have to until their husband can take over and do all the breadwinning. It doesn't come across to me as being empowered as a mother and keeper of the household, it comes across to me as someone who seems completely uninspired altogether.

What's pathetic? Sure she has a right to her own opinion whether I find it logical or not, but should I have to read about it while trying to catch up on the happenings of my school? Every article in the publication is supposed to be speaking of the Minnesota University system, why are you wasting my time and my money by publishing an article about how a girl wants to be a mom and go shopping with her friends in her yellow ribbon magnet covered Escalade....okay, yeah, that is reading to much into it.

I don't think she really meant anything by "freaky people", only that there is a majority of society that is good, and a small minority that has no problem chopping you up and keeping you in a freezer for 20 years.

But she followed up this comment by saying that the existence of these "freaky" people may stem from an issue of moral decay of our society.

As far as the whole marriage thing goes, I think she's going to be fairly disappointed if she thinks she won't ever have to work again after having her kids...She's obviously planning for a rich husband, so that is kind of disheartening to read.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at.

FOLLOW UP LETTER

Rick, thank you for responding so promptly. While I know that LynAnne's comments were not presented in a way to suggest they represented the entire student body. But by profiling her as a member of the class of 2008 may lead many readers to believe that much of what she says is fairly representative of, at least, the female members of her class.

I wasn't pointing out things she said because I necessarily disagree with them. In fact, I found that I disagreed with a fair number of things the male student said in his responses. But LynAnne's comments often made little sense or just came across as completely immature. I mean, come on, some of her "serious conversations" with her friends were about shopping, parties, and clothes? Is she 14?

I just feel that giving a student like LynAnne space in your pages does a great injustice to the countless number of other female students attending the U that are doing great things as citizens and students.

Thank you once again,
(suspeckted)

RESPONSE
Hi (Suspeckted)

Points well taken. Thanks again for taking the time to write. I appreciate the thoughts. Cheers.

Rick

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If the magazine really wanted to have someone more focussed and less controversial they would have looked for their answers elsewhere. In the end it's really all about creating controversy and selling the publication isn't it? Nothing else.

Actually, this "Magazine" isn't sold. It's just sent to all alumni in hopes that it will make them nostalgic about their college days or something like that and send them a big fat check.

Sorry I didn't see your comment before my large response foreverserenity.

I don't know if I'm angry as much as I am annoyed. I'd be angry only if they were blatantly suggesting that this student accurately dipicts the opinions shared by the rest of her peers.

-sus

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Sorry I didn't see your comment before my large response foreverserenity.

That's ok Sus! I get the point you're trying to make though. I can't blame you for reacting the way you did.

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Thanks for the civilized reply to my potentially inflammatory comments

The fact this is a magaizine geared toward alumni fundraising rather than just a student newspaper definitely puts it in a different perspective, now that I think about it. Thanks for the thought provoking article, and happy St. Patty's day, my good man.

David St. Hubbins

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My Dearest The Ted,
Oh man...I must admit that I didn't read this last article, nor the many preceding, because for the first time in months I've got a pretty good buzz going on. However, I do promise that I will read more and look up about the life of The Ted in the days to come. Peace Corps Kiribatis just got a new VSAT tellecoms sattelite, so in the days to come (maybe two weeks) I shall be a frequent user.
All my love,
Chris

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