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Solnac
Solnac
Join Date 12/2004
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My Heart Only Bleeds...

...Because It's Full Of Blood

January 9, 2005 3:27:00 AM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Look, I'll be honest with you. If you're going to make a post saying how completely wrong I am and how much I stink and how much you hate bleeding heart liberals, then I'd suggest you'd bugger off. You're just wasting your time and mine. I will call this the disclaimer and rule one of this post...got nothing insightful to say, don't say it.

Bleeding heart liberal. Pinko commie.

Let's face it, fellow liberals, the rhetoric just mounts, doesn't it? Everything we say and do boils down to the fact that we show (too much) compassion to our fellow man. That we believe that this contrivance called government (which, in my humble opinion is a human way to try to achieve utopia) is for helping and aiding the people. And let's face it, not just the American people, although we are the wealthest, richest countries in the world, everyone on Earth. We want things to be a little bit more fair for everyone who struggles.

Apparently that's entirely too much to ask.

In the past week, we've heard blogs beating down old people, 'enemy combatants' (which is the loosest term I've ever heard of,) and people in Asia we've never, ever met. I haven't seen Jerry Falwell blame the tsumani on heathens and homosexuals yet, but t'm awaiting it with baited breath. Let's cover these issues one at a time, shall we?

Social Security: Not that I profess to be an expert or anything, but hasn't the handwriting been on the wall for some time now? What were the previous adminstrations (Clinton included) doing about this? Phasing it out is unfair to those who've paid for it, and singularly cruel for those who need it. And the fact remains that the good ol' days of the kids raising Mom and Dad...well, they might be tougher than they were. Fact is, those kids are trying to raise kids on their own from what budget they can get, and maybe, just maybe save for that vacation or retirement themselves. While some people welcome back their parents with open arms, others find it burdensome and they can't afford it. Social Security helps defray the cost of even the predictabilty of getting old, and it also covers an uncertain world. While no one's arguing it needs reform, privatizing it sounds risky in a uncertain, rather gloomy recent market. There has to be a clever way to make FDR stop spinning in his grave and make the adjustments needed so the next generation can have what the last did, and not throw our system to the wolves.

Tsunami relief: Dear God. You'd think we were talking about giving money to terrorists, not people who lost their homes the way some of you go on, and on and on. People died. Lots of them. While I don't think we should give money to everyone who, say lost their lives in a fire that happened in China on one city block, (although, if a sizable amount of people lost their lives, a comment at the very least would be suitable from our leader) we should at least open our wallets and hearts a little. If that means the only way we end up giving is as a nation, so be it. Either way, we're giving the money, can't we just agree that's enough and perhaps the price you pay for maybe the world getting a little bit more global then it was 50 years ago? Is that an acceptable compromise for everyone?

Enemy Combatants (Gitmo): .......Did I hear correctly? Did I hear Americans saying torture was acceptable on anyone? I understand saying stupid things out of anger, but you need to let the macho go, folks. You're beginning to scare me. Here's at least one good reason why we shouldn't use torture at the Bay (Article's old, bear with me): Link Now...if that man gets home, what is he going to think of our...good citizenship if he was tortured? I for one, don't subscribe to the liberal idea we asked for 9/11, but I do think we need to consider for a minute what we do and what message we send out when do stuff like torture. And it's not like we can say..."We're sorry for the psychological and physical and maybe sexual pain and humiliation we caused. Here, take a lollipop. It'll be better soon." Anyone who says terrorists deserve it because they are terrorists is speaking from wrath...espically since we can't prove everyone in Gitmo's a terrorist.

I'm confused...almost stunned, acutally. Are we all not human beings with the same organs? Don't we have all the same rights as men and women? Is this truly, "All men are created equal?" or is it a sham of sorts to make us feel better. My heart bleeds...because it's full of the blood that makes me human. Does yours?

Bleeding In The Name of America (Metaphorically), The wolf/dragon and AWM,

Sol
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Solnac
Manopeace
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #1 January 9, 2005 4:21:45 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Good Post!... and BTW... theres nothing wrong with being a bleeding heart liberal
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Solnac
UBoB
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Reply #2 January 9, 2005 8:53:14 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I'm happy with being a bleeding heart. The constant flow keeps the valves from clogging and the arteries from hardening.
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dabe
Join Date 09/2003
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Reply #3 January 9, 2005 9:08:48 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Solnac, first let me say, I've missed you. You've been rather scarce around these parts lately.

Secondly, excellent article. I sometimes just groan over the posts I read here. They accuse us of "bleeding hearts", but they're heartless. . Nothing bleeds for them anymore. I've labeled it selfish and arrogant, and of course, been blacklisted on quite a few sites. No matter. They're without heart, anyway.

I was talking to my sister, who comes here to just read stuff. She is amazed. I told her that I'm becoming quite disheartened at our country's collective heartlessness. I'm disgusted, too. I feel helpless.
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latour999
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #4 January 9, 2005 12:46:37 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Also, torture makes the innocent lie just to tell the torturer what he wants to hear to make it stop. They just refuse to believe "I don't know"
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Solnac
Moderateman
Join Date 11/2004
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Reply #5 January 9, 2005 1:10:56 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
torture is an abomination!!!!!!! period.... making the enemy uncomfortable is fine.

There is nothing inherently BAD about bleeding hearts. its only when the bleeding overcomes common sense..
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thatoneguyinslc
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #6 January 9, 2005 1:31:07 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
WOW modman!

When you say it like that i can't argue with you. But when you convloute it with all the bravado...The message got lost i guess.

and a big to UBoB

Unfortunately, Mod isn't in the majority on the right. Most of em (at least the ones that i have been debating on this issue in Terp's thread this week) don't feel the same way. It's kind of a "win at all costs" attitude. which in the end usurps some of the basic tenants that our country was founded upon.

The problem with torture, on top of being inhumane, breeds even more resentment amongst the enemy. Which causes them to perpetrate even crueler acts than before. Ther's a certain rightie who likes to remind me that Vietnam was the big hotbed in the history of the US military...Well? What happened in Vietnam? they torturted the s**t out of US POW's didn't they?

I'll bet if you were to tell John McCain that torturing enemy combatants was ok, he'd probably punch you in the face.

Just a guess though.
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Reply #7 January 9, 2005 1:36:39 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I'll bet if you were to tell John McCain that torturing enemy combatants was ok, he'd probably punch you in the face.


geeeeezeeeeeeeeeeeee again I say torture is bad hows that? bad bad bad.... not to be done ever ever under any circumstances... is this plain enough yet??/ torture = bad
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Lee1776
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Reply #8 January 9, 2005 1:41:09 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Everything we say and do boils down to the fact that we show (too much) compassion to our fellow man.


And let's face it, not just the American people, although we are the wealthest, richest countries in the world, everyone on Earth. We want things to be a little bit more fair for everyone who struggles.


They accuse us of "bleeding hearts", but they're heartless.


Bleeding hearts? Just an interesting point to make out, your not "bleeding hearts". Why? because you are the ones so willing to let the Iraqi people get massacred and enslaved into a Religious theocracy or Fascist country. While you cry compassionate tears for those 175,000 who died in Asia, your all so willing to withdraw our troops and let (most likely) millions get jailed, put to death, and any hope of a free life crushed in the after math.

I am sure that others on this forum could come up with hundreds of other examples of liberal "Compassion". i.e. Mothers having children taken from them by social services. Murder and Rapist set free to commit crimes again ect....

Your only "Bleeding hearts" when you can open up the US collective wallet (i.e. someone else's wallet) or if it is in your political view. I’m not saying that the Right is not heartless, both sides are heartless, but in their own ways.

That's My Two Cents
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Solnac
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Reply #9 January 9, 2005 1:45:22 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
That's My Two Cents


have another cent for once again hitting the nail on the head
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Solnac
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Reply #10 January 9, 2005 1:46:25 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Reply By: latour999Posted: Sunday, January 09, 2005Also, torture makes the innocent lie just to tell the torturer what he wants to hear to make it stop. They just refuse to believe "I don't know"


OH my God I gotta agree with latour..... walking away considering eating a whole pound of candy...
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thatoneguyinslc
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Reply #11 January 9, 2005 1:51:00 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Mod, i wasn't hammering on you. geez! I gave you a compliment That was a general "you".
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Reply #12 January 9, 2005 1:54:05 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Reply By: thatoneguyinslcPosted: Sunday, January 09, 2005Mod, i wasn't hammering on you. geez! I gave you a compliment


sorry I guess I am kinda touchy about this whole torture thing...... I saw torture....... the effects, the destruction...... It pains me to think anyone would accuse me {not that you did} of condoning torture
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Reply #13 January 9, 2005 8:22:13 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
OH my God I gotta agree with latour..... walking away considering eating a whole pound of candy...


I prefer ice cream at these moments. At least we can disagree on that...
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Reply #14 January 10, 2005 3:22:01 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
your not "bleeding hearts".


It's funny how you conservatives label us as such. I wouldn't label myself as a bleeding heart, necessarly...plus the imagery is disguisting. We're 'bleeding heart liberals' because someone projects as such. As far as my own international and national agenda politcally goes, however, I do admit the imagery possibly fits.

because you are the ones so willing to let the Iraqi people get massacred and enslaved into a Religious theocracy or Fascist country. While you cry compassionate tears for those 175,000 who died in Asia, your all so willing to withdraw our troops and let (most likely) millions get jailed, put to death, and any hope of a free life crushed in the after math.


I wasn't for the Iraq war, for sure, because I thought there were more effective ways besides killing lots of people to achieve an objective. Plus the reasoning given for said war seemed, and still seems faulty to me. Now that we're there, tho', I recongize the merit of the old saying 'in for a penny, in for a pound.' Does that mean I favor it? No. It's the fact that if we leave now, things will be worse.

Solnac, first let me say, I've missed you. You've been rather scarce around these parts lately.


Ahh, fuzzy. *Isn't being sarcastic.* I've been working, plus there's not a whole lot to cover that everyone else hasn't.

All of you, great comments...except the whole icecream thing has me confused.
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Lee1776
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Reply #15 January 10, 2005 4:40:39 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Plus the reasoning given for said war seemed, and still seems faulty to me. Now that we're there, tho', I recongize the merit of the old saying 'in for a penny, in for a pound.' Does that mean I favor it? No. It's the fact that if we leave now, things will be worse.


Thanks you. Sorry for the splash damage, I meant my statement to by more directed to the typical pull out now left wingers. I did not know your views at the time of my statement.

But actually that makes you more likely to be a real Bleeding Heart.

That's My Two Cents
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Myrrander
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Reply #16 January 10, 2005 4:52:09 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Torture rules. Especially if it's a person with dark skin being tortured. Especially if that dark skinned person isn't a Christian. I love torture. Y'all tortured Jesus, now we're gonna torture YOU!

It amazes me that in the 21st century, we're having a conversation about whether or not torture is "OK."
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Reply #17 January 10, 2005 5:02:35 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Reply #16 By: Myrrander - 1/10/2005 4:52:09 PM
Torture rules. Especially if it's a person with dark skin being tortured. Especially if that dark skinned person isn't a Christian. I love torture. Y'all tortured Jesus, now we're gonna


How would you know about Jesus being tortured you, you atheist you.
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Myrrander
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Reply #18 January 10, 2005 5:04:38 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I'm an atheist, not an illiterate.
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Lee1776
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Reply #19 January 10, 2005 5:13:03 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Torture rules. Especially if it's a person with dark skin being tortured. Especially if that dark skinned person isn't a Christian. I love torture. Y'all tortured Jesus, now we're gonna torture YOU!


Myrrander your slow convertion to the right has gone too far. Turn back for the safety of your own sanity and the life of the Middle Eastern man that lives next door. Turn back, Turn back before it's to late.

It amazes me that in the 21st century, we're having a conversation about whether or not torture is "OK."


Ya, what he said. We should not be having this conversation until the 23rd century at least.

Sorry Myrrander, just have to do it. Do you forgive me or must I feel a shamed of myself for what I said above?
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Reply #20 January 10, 2005 5:15:03 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Feel ashamed, but know we're all laughing too...


Cheers

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Myrrander
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Reply #21 January 10, 2005 5:18:19 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Don't feel ashamed -- "better now than never" is a great point -- and I got a chuckle from it.
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