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Join Date 07/2013
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Victory setting issue(needs total revamp)

July 26, 2013 9:44:44 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

#1 Capital victory on removes military victory. As in you must destroy enemy capital in order to win. Seriously I set that on and I wasn't even near enemy capital and still won wtf.

#2 Wtf is up with flagship? It is shitty battleship. This needs to be changed by a lot. Either turn it into a Titan or add a new ship design for each faction, bigger or as big as the Titan. Should be a lot stronger than the Titan.

#3 Allow Flagship to become a Capital so if both victory setting for Capital and Flagship is on. The person who lost all his planets still need his flagship to be destroyed in order to lose. 

 

 

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Ryat
Join Date 06/2006
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Reply #1 July 26, 2013 10:53:26 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

1 - That's an AI problem.

2 - That makes sure you try to protect the thing. And makes for faster games.

3 - Um no. Some of these games go on too long as is sometimes.

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Reply #2 July 26, 2013 11:52:52 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I know it takes long. Too long for only 10 planets too. Maybe increase the resource gain rate.

They obviously need to increase the jump speed for sure.

2 hours just trying to capture ten planets and the distance was pretty dam low for custom map(not getting attacked).

I was playing multiplayer with my friend too.

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Reply #3 July 27, 2013 12:15:55 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

You may not like #2 but, others would. If this is about competitive gaming. We could have both. It couldn't hurt. Having a strong flag will allow us to have more fun and more than likely speed up the game as others would send it to capture some planets a lot faster. I would do it for the first few planets.

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Sinkillr
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Reply #4 July 27, 2013 12:28:56 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

No competitive or casual match ever has flagships enabled. The reason is because the losing player can just drag on the match forever by having his flagship flee across the map with its invulnerability shield.

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Turchany
Join Date 03/2009
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Reply #5 July 27, 2013 4:48:55 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sinkillr,
reply 4
No competitive or casual match ever has flagships enabled.

 

Goafan said they tried it in a 4v4 or something and he said it was one of the best games he had if I remember correctly.

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lolpurplecow
Join Date 07/2013
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Reply #6 July 27, 2013 10:45:09 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Flagships that powerful would absolutely ruin the early game. I suppose an option could be added for stronger flagships, but there's definitely a reason that  they're weak right now.

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Reply #7 July 27, 2013 12:25:59 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting lolpurplecow,
reply 6

Flagships that powerful would absolutely ruin the early game. I suppose an option could be added for stronger flagships, but there's definitely a reason that  they're weak right now.

How does it ruin early game? What about facing harder AI's? It would should help against them. Plus wouldn't the bigger flagship have slower jump phase? Also for the a above comment ruining the game. Did you not build any "Phase Jump inhibitor"? What about the battleships/cruisers that disable jump phase too? Like the Akkan Battle Cruiser(Ion Bolt)

 

Surely it won't have the same invulnerability skill like the one we have right now.

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lolpurplecow
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Reply #8 July 27, 2013 12:37:49 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

It ruins the early game by trivializing everything else that you do. Having a ship given to you for free at the start of the game that's stronger than a titan makes that ship the only thing that matters for a looooong time

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GoaFan77
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Reply #9 July 27, 2013 2:29:54 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sinkillr,
reply 4
No competitive or casual match ever has flagships enabled. The reason is because the losing player can just drag on the match forever by having his flagship flee across the map with its invulnerability shield.

Quoting Turchany,
reply 5
Goafan said they tried it in a 4v4 or something and he said it was one of the best games he had if I remember correctly.

Yup, and it wasn't even a group of friends. It was just a random game on ICO where the host for some reason had flagship victory on. Only problem was we managed to kill one of their flagships early with the Marauder's phase out hull of all things, since it has a fast enough cool down to permanently prevent a flagship from retreating, but you'll notice those abilities now no longer target flagships. We definitely did not see anyone try to kill the game by running their flagship everywhere, and really with as many carriers and corvettes people build these days I'd think you could catch it fairly easily unless its with a Vorastra titan, but we have that issue in normal games as well.

In case anyone is actually that curious, I put the video on Youtube here.

Quoting makemap,
reply 7
Plus wouldn't the bigger flagship have slower jump phase?

All ships phase jump at the same rate.

Quoting makemap,
reply 7
Did you not build any "Phase Jump inhibitor"? What about the battleships/cruisers that disable jump phase too? Like the Akkan Battle Cruiser(Ion Bolt)

Phase jump inhibitors would only work if your enemy brought its flagship in to your territory, which I would not want to do. And as mentioned due to the rather cheap tactics used in the above video, most disabling abilities no longer work on flagships.

 

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ZombiesRus5
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Reply #10 July 27, 2013 3:05:08 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I've had some fun flagship victory on games on ICO.

Also capital planet victory games work pretty well sometimes in FFA. A vasari player has the advantage in these game types though.

Occupation victory never really worked out to be a good option.

Diplomatic victory is sorta lame.

Research Victory- I have plans for it.

Allied Victory - I miss the # of allied victors option.

 

I also disagree that anything needs fixed here. 

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Sinkillr
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Reply #11 July 27, 2013 4:40:59 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I still disagree with your assessment on flagship victory, as it adds nothing to the game. The only time the flagship is going to come in useful is early game, because it has poor dps. In mid to late game, a smart player will just hide it in his hw so it doesn't get sniped, essentially making it with normal victory conditions.

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ARESIV
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Reply #12 July 27, 2013 6:42:23 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

 

 

#1 Capital victory on removes military victory. As in you must destroy enemy capital in order to win. Seriously I set that on and I wasn't even near enemy capital and still won wtf.[/quote]

 

The AI surrendered in this case.

 

Which is not much of a problem, compared to the issue that the AI wont protect is capital when Capital Victory is enabled.

 

 

#2 Wtf is up with flagship? It is shitty battleship. This needs to be changed by a lot. Either turn it into a Titan or add a new ship design for each faction, bigger or as big as the Titan. Should be a lot stronger than the Titan.[/quote]

 

Its a damm powerful free battleship. Yes, in the later stages of the game, you have to hide it. But that is what makes it superior to a capital planet. Any planet can die when hit hard enough and if the attacker can afford any losses (because he wins the game afterwards).

A flagship however can run away and hide.

Stronger than the Titan would be insane.

 

3 Allow Flagship to become a Capital so if both victory setting for Capital and Flagship is on. The person who lost all his planets still need his flagship to be destroyed in order to lose. [/quote]

 

That would be the only good idea you have.

 

 

Quoting Sinkillr,
reply 4
No competitive or casual match ever has flagships enabled. The reason is because the losing player can just drag on the match forever by having his flagship flee across the map with its invulnerability shield.

 

There are certainly some games using this victory condition.

 

The Invulnerability shield has a long cooldown and 30 seconds duration.... it is by no means a serious obstabcle in the way of destroying the flagship. It just helps you to survive an occasional close call.

 

 

And if somebody wants to drag out a game... they can do so plently with just military victory. Or by playing Vasari Loyalist.

 

 

[quote who="lolpurplecow" reply="6" id="3385101"]Flagships that powerful would absolutely ruin the early game. I suppose an option could be added for stronger flagships, but there's definitely a reason that they're weak right now.

 

They are not weak.... they are so powerful that the developers REMOVED their bombing weapons to stop capital planet rushes.

 

[quote who="makemap" reply="7" id="3385127"]Did you not build any "Phase Jump inhibitor"? What about the battleships/cruisers that disable jump phase too? Like the Akkan Battle Cruiser(Ion Bolt)

 

You dont have that stuff in early game.

 

 

[quote who="Sinkillr" reply="11" id="3385181"]
I still disagree with your assessment on flagship victory, as it adds nothing to the game. The only time the flagship is going to come in useful is early game, because it has poor dps. In mid to late game, a smart player will just hide it in his hw so it doesn't get sniped, essentially making it with normal victory conditions.

 

In the contrary! Having a - by late game standards - vulnerable flagship to protect makes the game more interesting. You have to use more sneaky moves to caught it.

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Ryat
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Reply #13 July 27, 2013 6:46:49 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

In essence, the whole "Victory Settings" debate amounts to personal opinion.

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Lavo_2
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Reply #14 July 27, 2013 10:18:18 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Ryat,
reply 13
In essence, the whole "Victory Settings" debate amounts to personal opinion.

I'd argue that occupation victory is objectively bad because the occupation planet is always spawned in a random new star, removing the whole need to scout it and the possibility for people to make custom maps tailored for occupation victories. Plus the # of allied victors for Allied Victory was nice. But otherwise, yes most opinions are subjective.

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Ryat
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Reply #15 July 28, 2013 12:30:47 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

True on Occupation Victory.

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