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{0.8}some toughts after steam rolling 3 games

salikgyula

Join Date 02/2012

{0.8}some toughts after steam rolling 3 games

Last game: 6x5 middle map, 4 ridiculous AI, playing with Pariden

Fact: My heroes used only general traits !! (this is a serious problem)

- my sovereign and 1st. heroe are mages so at 1st lvl i pick mage than 3 potential and knowledge and than the spells. When i start picking spell demage i already steam rolling the map so does not matter what i pick. I barely touched the fancy trait tree

-with 3. and 4. heroes i tried the other 3 professions but, heroes are useless cause of the swarm tactic you cant go in and fight couse you will be dead.

-i used only leather armor, on heroes cause i never reached the plate mail trait, (i was already steam rolling the map). On units because it is expensive, because swarm negates any armor, and because it makes low init.

- i created only 1 type unit the "rusher" :

+3attack +3move trait, +2init trait, +3 attack if init is higher trait,

(after watchtower in the fortress again +3attack and +3move witch is a joke)

weapon basic pike and upgrade if i have metal

horse (because you have plenty of them in every game)

-The "rusher" is the OP unit now, because you can finish the fight in the 1st turn, avoiding swarm.

- My only usable tactical spell was the slow and haste, because the casting times are so high (1 and 2 turn) for the fany magic, and the battles usually ends in the 1.-2. turn. (i never reached the savant trait because the game was over...)

I think the balance is completly off now, the new gameplay elements are not in the right place, i miss encumbarance, and i miss my 20$ right now.

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Please do NOT remove Potential.

There are no perks that depend on taking the Potential path; I do not understand why people feel like a choice has to be taken away because they cannot control their mouse clicks ('It is there, so I have to take it even though I don't want it or id doesn't make sense to me'). The decision to take it or not lies with you. You are not forced to take it by any sort of mechanic in the game.

Potential adds another layer of depth-do you want to go for the 'active' perks and kick butt now or do you want to bide your time and be 'weaker' now, but make further gains in the mid to late game? Make the choice. You can't pick everything and you shouldn't be able to...if you could, then why not just have an auto level up?

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Quoting flagyl,

reply 26

Please do NOT remove Potential.

There are no perks that depend on taking the Potential path; I do not understand why people feel like a choice has to be taken away because they cannot control their mouse clicks ('It is there, so I have to take it even though I don't want it or id doesn't make sense to me'). The decision to take it or not lies with you. You are not forced to take it by any sort of mechanic in the game.

Potential adds another layer of depth-do you want to go for the 'active' perks and kick butt now or do you want to bide your time and be 'weaker' now, but make further gains in the mid to late game? Make the choice. You can't pick everything and you shouldn't be able to...if you could, then why not just have an auto level up?

I agree. Potential should not be removed. It's a well thought out ability path that gives players the choice whether or not to persue it. It's not clear-cut as to whether this is the 'right' path to follow or the 'wrong' path to follow because there are comments and agruements for both. That means it's an excellant RPG aspect to the game.....and I thought that's what SD was trying to achieve here.

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[I agree. Potential should not be removed. It's a well thought out ability path that gives players the choice whether or not to persue it. It's not clear-cut as to whether this is the 'right' path to follow or the 'wrong' path to follow because there are comments and agruements for both. That means it's an excellant RPG aspect to the game.....and I thought that's what SD was trying to achieve here.]

It is an illusion of a choice. Of course, if you play on huge map and with one AI on easy, it does not really matter. In competitive game advantage of potential perks is so huge that cannot be ignored. I wonder if there is someone who plays on insane/ridiculous and does not pick those first ...If you have choice - my sov is good for 100 turns (when there is not much danger anyway) and then sucks the rest of a game, and most probably i loose, and i choose 4 perks so i have a chance at win, then it is not much of a choice.

Though, of course, one can argue that you can win without heroes, and i did recently (on ridiculous), and which is the point of this discussion. But even if choice does not really matter, why should i choose perks that are extremely boring?

And if you play melee hero potential perks are MUST, since lots of good weapons have high level requirement, and good luck to get past lvl 15 without those perks.

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Going back to the topic of discussion.

We want to have a legendary heroes. We want also a balance, that those powerful heroes do not make a game meaningless. We want also a choice, so the heroes are different from each other.

Whether, we will have lots of levels, or only few, one thing can be agreed on: we need game-changing levels (at least from time to time). One way of achieving it without breaking a balance is to give really huge advantages together with bad-side effects, which will force certain strategies. Here are couple examples:

For instance, a perk 'one man army'. You get +100% of experience, and you get +3 attack/+1 def/+5hp per level, but you cannot have more than 4 troops in your army, and you cannot cast spells.

Another one: you get +100% on spell damage, but you get -50% of exp and you cannot cast non-damage spells any more.

You leech +10hp on hit, but if you miss - or do not attack this turn, you loose 5hp.

Necromancer: you mage kills himself to become undead mage From now on, you can summon free skeleton every turn (plus resurrecting some enemies or whatever), but you cannot recover hp except through life-leech spell. You cannot also cast life spells, nor have any human in your army (only summons or beasts or twisted etc.)

In this way heroes can become powerful, but also they can be countered, since they power is specialized. I think also that we should have one melee hero, and instead 3 or more mages (summoner, damage-oriented, necro, nature-support etc.).

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Potential bothered me until I realized that you can spend just one point in it and be happy.

First point give 3 times the boost of the 2nd and 3rd points (15, 5, 5)

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Lokitako, I was under the impression that most / all perks were cumulative.

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Gaunathor

Join Date 04/2006

+170

Quoting Lokitako,

reply 30

Potential bothered me until I realized that you can spend just one point in it and be happy.

First point give 3 times the boost of the 2nd and 3rd points (15, 5, 5)

Ahm, no. The first gives +15%, the second gives an additional +20%, and the third adds another +25%. This means a total of +60%, if you take all three.

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Quoting Gaunathor,

reply 32

Quoting Lokitako,
reply 30

Potential bothered me until I realized that you can spend just one point in it and be happy.

First point give 3 times the boost of the 2nd and 3rd points (15, 5, 5)

Ahm, no. The first gives +15%, the second gives an additional +20%, and the third adds another +25%. This means a total of +60%, if you take all three.

But if the effects are cumulative, then the ability icon for each should also be separate on your hero profile.

If the icon is a replacement effect, the skill should be too...or at least the skill should be reworded to reflect the icon replacement:

Potential I : 15% bonus to XP

Potential II : 35% bonus to XP

etc...

(without the '+')

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You made Kael buy the game he was making? Damn, you guys are brutal. Oh wait, you meant the difficulty level. Still, it is possible in the corporate world today.

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Quoting Gaunathor,

reply 32

Quoting Lokitako, reply 30
Potential bothered me until I realized that you can spend just one point in it and be happy.

First point give 3 times the boost of the 2nd and 3rd points (15, 5, 5)

Ahm, no. The first gives +15%, the second gives an additional +20%, and the third adds another +25%. This means a total of +60%, if you take all three.

At the start I though this aswell, but then I saw the tooltip:

Quoting GFireflyE,

reply 33

This tooltip made me think they are not cumulative.

Anyway, my previous post was wrong, and they are in fact cumulative. Gaunathor is right.

I double checked now with an old save, and even if the tooltip reporst just the final bonus, the previous ones are added too. Sorry for the mistake.

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Quoting Lokitako,

reply 35

Quoting Gaunathor,
reply 32

Quoting Lokitako, reply 30
Potential bothered me until I realized that you can spend just one point in it and be happy.

First point give 3 times the boost of the 2nd and 3rd points (15, 5, 5)

Ahm, no. The first gives +15%, the second gives an additional +20%, and the third adds another +25%. This means a total of +60%, if you take all three.

At the start I though this aswell, but then I saw the tooltip:

Quoting GFireflyE,
reply 33

Quoting Gaunathor, reply 32

Quoting Lokitako,
reply 30

Potential bothered me until I realized that you can spend just one point in it and be happy.

First point give 3 times the boost of the 2nd and 3rd points (15, 5, 5)

Ahm, no. The first gives +15%, the second gives an additional +20%, and the third adds another +25%. This means a total of +60%, if you take all three.

But if the effects are cumulative, then the ability icon for each should also be separate on your hero profile.

If the icon is a replacement effect, the skill should be too...or at least the skill should be reworded to reflect the icon replacement:

Potential I : 15% bonus to XP

Potential II : 35% bonus to XP

etc...

(without the '+')

This tooltip made me think they are not cumulative.

Anyway, my previous post was wrong, and they are in fact cumulative. Gaunathor is right.

I double checked now with an old save, and even if the tooltip reporst just the final bonus, the previous ones are added too. Sorry for the mistake.

I don't think you can be blamed for this. The tooltip shows the incorrect value for the amount of bonus XP you should be receiving above the base. It's been mentioned before all the way back in beta for FE. No change.

Maybe a mini-mod to change this one up???

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