Are you sure that by picking masterwork chainmail that you can automatically wear it?

i don't think the armor of heroes is such a big deal when you researched the whole warfare tech tree already (you have to, since masterwork chain replaces plate, which is at the very end of the tree). by that time, trained armies are a lot more powerful than champions. the proficiency traits allow you to equip random drop chain/plate items in the early/mid game when your champions are still a significant part of your military power. when you're at the end of the tech tree, the heroes are fairly obsolete considering the power of late game trained units. masterwork chain is only 2/3 of the defense of plate, so it's really a trade off- better initiative or better armor. the combat strength of heroes doesn't really matter at that point, imo.

I disagree in every sense of the word, heroes should scale to late game.

more than half of the tech tree is devoted to the development of better, larger, more powerful armies - the other half pretty much gives you the means to research, build and maintain those armies. if heroes are powerful enough to compete with the economic and military power of the whole faction, then the whole empire building aspect of the game becomes meaningless. in other words - we are back to the FE system where it was actually possible to never settle a city and wipe out the whole map just with your sov and the starting champ.

the way i see it, heroes fulfill a critical role in the birth of the faction - they are the core of your armies at the beginning and they are the guys who kill off the monsters so you can settle the land. once your empire is established, they gradually get less important as your ability to field better equipped and more capable armies increases. you can still invest a lot of money and buy your warriors champion plate and other fancy stuff, and if they are high level warriors, they can still compete with a company of trained units (or more...), but a single hero really shouldn't be as powerful as a full stack of trained companies, that's slightly off balance...

I don't know- when elemental started, I remember it being stated that champions would be like 'the ten who were taken' in the black company.

for those who haven't read it, these were powerful mages (sometimes Mage-warriors, shape shifters) who could decimate armies. At the same time, the black company was able to take some of them down.

To me, a high level (10+ or more) well equipped w magical items should be a major force on the battlefield. They should still be vulnerable to elite units, but this is a fantasy game called LEGENDARY HEROES. Let them start out wimpy, require some grooming but w dedication become major forces.

And that's unfortunate!!!  Too many people agree with you.  Heroes should NEVER be pointless!

this thread is about how the game actually is, not how the game could be / should be. the original topic was about masterwork chainmail and the opinion of the thread starter that it's a functional no brainer. i tried to point out the flaws in this logic, and then it somehow turned into a discussion that heroes should be more powerful. noone even suggested that the current state of heroes is desirable - but as a matter of fact, heroes (especially melee heroes) are pretty much useless in the late game right now. 

Exactly.

At low levels heroes should need to be cautious and have other troops supporting them (although fighting class heroes should still be able to survive on the front lines in a fair fight, just not when outnumbered/outleveled).

Mid game heroes (eg level 10) should be pretty strong but still quite vulnerable if they get themselves into a bad situation.

Late game heroes (eg level 20) should be very strong, 'legendary' one could almost say. They should be killable by other 'normal' troops but only when outnumbered against strong 'normal' troops with good traits, weapons, etc.

Currently mages sort of fit this, a high level mage with sufficient mana can own. However the three fighting classes start off weak and get steadily weaker as the game goes on.

bow is nice only if you death archmage and pool all your mana into blood rage.