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michaelwalters
michaelwalters
Join Date 11/2010
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AI cheats

June 16, 2012 2:12:20 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

 If anyone is interested or doubts cheating takes place on a large scale on normal difficulty, I can upload one recording, if they give me the details on how to do this and where.

Replays are selective in what they show. In the first replay it showed a Capital ship's movements, but in subsequent replays it did not. In the second save, which I can upload as an example of cheating, five Capital ships are produced from nowhere in 10 secs on Orpheus. The adjacent planet, Hesperia, shows no forces and the next planet where the rival faction is situated, Semphyra, shows, at the beginning of the recording, two Capital ships and a small supporting fleet. It is only from here can the Capital ships come from. Then a further two Capital ships are produced from nowhere in five secs, in addition to the five already produced to fight my forces. The two Capital ships are still present on Semphyra. In the third save the game actually stops me producing forces and rapidly reduces my resources in the process.

Some may think this is not an important issue, but it actually makes the whole single player game unplayable. 

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michaelwalters
-Ue_Carbon
Join Date 07/2008
+117
Reply #1 June 16, 2012 2:19:23 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Upload.

 

I would like to see this, Ive not seen this yet.

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michaelwalters
Pbhead
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #2 June 16, 2012 2:20:32 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

hmm. there have been some complaints about capital ships appearing out of nowhere...

 

but since you didnt give any files, saves or replays, this continues to be a mystical imaginary issue.

 

aka. pics or it didnt happen.

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michaelwalters
Major Stress
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #3 June 16, 2012 4:10:22 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

It is by design that Cruel, and Vicious AI is a cheating AI, but this is a first in the four year existence of the game for a "Normal" AI to cheat. Post up some proof.

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michaelwalters
Pat_22_
Join Date 06/2011
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Reply #4 June 16, 2012 4:16:58 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Major Stress,
reply 3
It is by design that Cruel, and Vicious AI is a cheating AI, but this is a first in the four year existence of the game for a "Normal" AI to cheat. Post up some proof.

 

Hell, Unfair cheat too.

I look at the charts at the end of the game and the AIs get a MASSIVE resource boost out of absolutely nowhere ( in the resources available section ) right about the time I start bombing their first planet.

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michaelwalters
michaelwalters
Join Date 11/2010
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Reply #5 June 16, 2012 4:43:18 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thanks for your interest.

The autorecording single player has no record since 25 May when the beta version of Rebellion was downloaded to Steam. (I think the current game has been in play for about 4 days).

I still have the relevant saves in-game which I have been watching. Do you know of any way these can be recorded on file. If so I can upload to Gamefront.

Thanks

Pat_22_ is quite correct. After watching the replays the statistics showed an enormous advantage for the AI contrary to the in-game statistics shown after a normal save.

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michaelwalters
AlixX979
Join Date 04/2007
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Reply #6 June 16, 2012 7:13:06 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

If you want a balanced start. Try Multiplayer(against other humans). AI needs to cheat otherwise its no challenge...

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michaelwalters
Kien_Ko
Join Date 07/2008
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Reply #7 June 16, 2012 7:29:08 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I believe you are right about the AI's cheating a bit Michaelwalters. I have over 70 hours of solely Single Player matches against AI's and have noticed this as well. However the matches are easily possible to win even against hard AI's. Just received my achievement for beating 4 AI's on hard with no problems.

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michaelwalters
Pupetier
Join Date 10/2009
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Reply #8 June 16, 2012 7:30:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yes ai cheat by getting more credits research faster build faster auto lvl up its capitals etc....

But I have never seen caps just pop up into existence....

Well for me 1 Vicious AI is still same as Easy AI  

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michaelwalters
Gameassassin1020
Join Date 03/2012
+1
Reply #9 June 17, 2012 12:30:53 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Greg30007,
reply 9
Yes ai cheat by getting more credits research faster build faster auto lvl up its capitals etc....

But I have never seen caps just pop up into existence....

Well for me 1 Vicious AI is still same as Easy AI  

 

I made a map download it here  https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/426450 (not advertising) get the older version and see if you can dupe the randomly appearing cap ships. It seems they had 5-7 cap ships in a gravity well that didn't exist -.- 

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michaelwalters
TheChronicToast
Join Date 03/2008
+67
Reply #10 June 17, 2012 2:02:49 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting michaelwalters,
reply 6
I still have the relevant saves in-game which I have been watching. Do you know of any way these can be recorded on file. If so I can upload to Gamefront.

 

I believe you can upload these files for download directly. I do not believe you need to save them using fraps or any other software?

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michaelwalters
Volt_Cruelerz
Join Date 06/2008
+115
Reply #11 June 17, 2012 2:39:09 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Were you by chance going against the VL?  They can spawn capitals from nowhere if they have phase gates in the well.

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michaelwalters
michaelwalters
Join Date 11/2010
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Reply #12 June 17, 2012 9:35:07 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,
reply 12
Were you by chance going against the VL?  They can spawn capitals from nowhere if they have phase gates in the well.

No, in fact I was playing TEC v TEC (random). One big weakness I have is still not knowing the other factions weaknesses and strengths in order to counter them if possible. The AI game will punish you severely if you do not do what it expects or wants you to do. For example, when playing against two other factions with pirates active, I refused the offer of a trade pact. I did so because I was accumulating a huge amount of resources from my planets in close proximity to each other and if I had accepted the trade pact across the other end of the universe, this would have considerably reduced the amount of resources by increasing the time to acquire them. This was not proportionate to the the small increase gained in resources from travelling great distances. It was a balancing mechanism to introduce the trade pact at the time it was to reduce my resources. What happened? I was first jumped by large fleet of pirates (though I had 50 credits bounty more on another faction) and I was then jumped by the two factions shortly after.

After watching the replay of the current game, the statistics showed a massive superiority to the rival contrary to the in-game statistics shown after a manual save which gave me a modest superiority in most categories.

I am not sure if there is some cross-wiring taking place between types of saves, levels of difficulty etc. 

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michaelwalters
michaelwalters
Join Date 11/2010
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Reply #13 June 17, 2012 9:46:59 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I need more experience of the game --- if only I had the time!

SOAS, like most RTS games is a scissors, rock and paper game where scissors can cut rock, not a strategy game as such when playing the AI. 

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michaelwalters
michaelwalters
Join Date 11/2010
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Reply #14 June 17, 2012 9:56:00 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

OKAY I will try that soon. I needed the experience of AI first to learn the game.

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michaelwalters
michaelwalters
Join Date 11/2010
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Reply #15 June 17, 2012 10:02:34 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Congrats. Any advice I could use?

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michaelwalters
michaelwalters
Join Date 11/2010
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Reply #16 June 17, 2012 10:33:18 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting AlixX979,
reply 7
If you want a balanced start. Try Multiplayer(against other humans). AI needs to cheat otherwise its no challenge...

I agree the game needs to cheat to provide a match, but when these cheats become obvious, it is the equivalent of weapons not working.When the player does not do what the program wants or expects you to do, it is punitive well outside of the rival's capabilities. It is exasperating when you achieve a dominant position to find other factors are suddenly introduced which no examination of the map could provide a forewarning. For example, I started a save game with a faction that had a weak culture, while my own was strong. Within seconds the rival faction had a strong enough to force my own back at a rate of knots. To make matters worse it also introduced the Novalith Canon a few seconds after that.

I have won my last three games, though these were only on small maps on normal difficulty. I am not sure if the game rewards time spent on it? 

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michaelwalters
Pupetier
Join Date 10/2009
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Reply #17 June 19, 2012 7:05:13 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting michaelwalters,
reply 16
Congrats. Any advice I could use?

When you go to multi player enable auto save reply of the game and watch what other players do especially if you get totally creamed. If that happens it probably means you are playing against pro.... 

Oh most common mistake new players do is that they don't upgrade population of planets (1 for asteroids and moons 2 for every other) and loose money ....

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