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ValhallasAshes
ValhallasAshes
Join Date 06/2004
+7

PUT IT BACK!

June 13, 2012 2:11:55 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

What the hell!! I'm playing Vasari Rebels, go to research Enslaved Labor and it's not there any more!  The Vasari structures are already more expensive than any other race and now there's no way to ease the strain.  This is a base ability of the Vasari.  If I remember correctly splitting off the factions was supposed to be that you get all the base abilities of every race that have been the mainstay of the franchise.  But get more added on to it.  Not lose basic abilities that define a races playability.  Yes I know they get all for one now, but quite frankly it's a crap ability unless you actually have allies.  Plus it's an ability that only affects combat.  Enslaved labor is an economic/infrastructure ability.  If I had to have a choice between All for One and Enslaved Labor, I'd take Enslaved Labor hands down without question.  Especially considering how crap the Vasari economy is to begin with.  Put Enslaved Labor back on to the Vasari Rebels tech tree.  Put it back!

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ValhallasAshes
Ryat
Join Date 06/2006
+429
Reply #1 June 13, 2012 2:18:41 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Vasari Rebels are suppose to be now uniting with the TEC and Advent and not making slaves of them. Maybe have it reworded might be better though.

 

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ValhallasAshes
ValhallasAshes
Join Date 06/2004
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Reply #2 June 13, 2012 2:28:13 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Oh don't give me that crap.  It's a base ability of the vasari.  Plus the tech description never said anything about it being specifically TEC nor Advent as slaves.  Just enslaved labor.  That can be interpreted as their own civilians, conquered enemy systems, conquered neutral systems, unemployed enforced labor for the good of the civilization or whatever.  Stop reading too much into things.  This is a base ability and should not be changed.  I swear people sometimes read too much into things and call for things for realism where it's not needed.  Put it back.

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ValhallasAshes
GoaFan77
Join Date 10/2008
+629
Reply #3 June 13, 2012 2:30:59 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Vasari structures are no more expensive than anyone elses. Several people mentioned it was inconsistent with lore for them to be trying to somewhat work with other races while enslaving their people, and the VR have tons of things going for them already. The TEC Rebels also lost a tech if it helps you feel better.

Edit: If they are caring too much about realism, in my opinion you are caring too much about an 8% discount that you have to pay to get.

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ValhallasAshes
Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
+240
Reply #4 June 13, 2012 2:38:15 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

If you do the math, that discount (4% per level) actually takes a while to payoff...not as bad as some techs, but still, it's not the end of the world...

And I think the lore made it pretty clear the Vasari enslaved people...may have to find yourself the original manual, but they didn't enslave themselves, they enslaved others...doesn't fit the VR theme, so I'd say good call to get it removed...

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ValhallasAshes
RiddleKing
Join Date 04/2006
+32
Reply #5 June 13, 2012 2:43:47 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Big nick does your name signify that you have a big penis.

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ValhallasAshes
WHIPperSNAPper2008
Join Date 03/2008
+126
Reply #6 June 13, 2012 2:43:55 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Last I looked, Enslaved Labor is still available--but it was moved to the Manipulation (diplomacy) tech tree.  Here's a YouTube clip for you from a very funny cult classic movie that's probably way before most gamers' time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuo8l_njmuo

Here's one of the funniest movie scenes of all time from that same movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrY-zrXH9i0

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ValhallasAshes
ValhallasAshes
Join Date 06/2004
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Reply #7 June 13, 2012 3:01:42 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting RiddleKing,
reply 6
Big nick does your name signify that you have a big penis.

No, It was a nickname given to me a long time ago by friends and it stuck.  Yes, I get asked this question a lot.  No, that is not the connotation of the nickname.  And no, I won't tell you how big.  Unlike many guys, I don't feel the need to constantly talk about my size.

Quoting DirtySanchezz,
reply 7
Last I looked, Enslaved Labor is still available--but it was moved to the Manipulation (diplomacy) tech tree.  Here's a YouTube clip for you from a very funny cult classic movie that's probably way before most gamers' time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuo8l_njmuo

Here's one of the funniest movie scenes of all time from that same movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrY-zrXH9i

Nope... It's gone on the Vasari Rebels.  But it is still there on the Vasari Loyalists.

Quoting Seleuceia,
reply 5
If you do the math, that discount (4% per level) actually takes a while to payoff...not as bad as some techs, but still, it's not the end of the world...

Except you're forgetting that the Vasari have the worst passive economy in the game.  They make their resources through warfare.  If you're not fighting, you make very little money.  The TEC and Advent both have better passive economies than the vasari.  So not only do they have the worst passive economy, they have the most expensive units and structures in the game.  So other than combat, guess what the only other economic tech the vasari had was to balance their economy with the other races.  You guessed it... Enslaved labor.  Sorry, but no.  Enslaved labor or an equivelant tech should be back in.

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ValhallasAshes
GoaFan77
Join Date 10/2008
+629
Reply #8 June 13, 2012 3:09:44 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting bignick277,
reply 8
Except you're forgetting that the Vasari have the worst passive economy in the game. They make their resources through warfare. If you're not fighting, you make very little money. The TEC and Advent both have better passive economies than the vasari. So not only do they have the worst passive economy, they have the most expensive units and structures in the game. So other than combat, guess what the only other economic tech the vasari had was to balance their economy with the other races. You guessed it... Enslaved labor. Sorry, but no. Enslaved labor or an equivelant tech should be back in.

Last I checked they had by far better resource upgrades than the TEC/Advent, and while they get trade ports later, they do get trade upgrades that the advent doesn't get. Really I don't find the Vasari economy to be that terrible... and even if they did, lets not forget about phase missiles, phase stabilizers, awesome capitalships, and planet strip/jumping starbases, bonuses which are completely non-existant for the other factions.

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ValhallasAshes
HarryMcGrath
Join Date 04/2010
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Reply #9 June 13, 2012 6:39:43 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,
reply 9

phase stabilizers, awesome capitalships, and planet strip/jumping starbases

 

This. Quit moaning.

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ValhallasAshes
Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
+240
Reply #10 June 13, 2012 8:59:34 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting bignick277,
reply 8
Except you're forgetting that the Vasari have the worst passive economy in the game. They make their resources through warfare.

That's like saying the Vasari have the worst passive military, because all their bonuses only help them on the offence...

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ValhallasAshes
RiddleKing
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #11 June 13, 2012 9:16:16 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Lol

1.There resource extraction upgrades

2.Research that lowers the cost of frigates

3.Population Growth rate Upgrades

4.Scouts that capture neutrals 

5.Trade Income Upgrades

6.Population Pods

7.Planet strip

8.Resource Extraction Pacts

9.etc

 

.. Someone needs to share there weed if there saying  Vasari has a bad economy. 

 

 

 

 

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ValhallasAshes
gundamlit
Join Date 03/2012
+1
Reply #12 June 13, 2012 9:35:55 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting RiddleKing,
reply 12
7.Planet strip

Just a minor mistake, it's only available for VL, not for VR.

But I would like a see an alternative version of Enslaved Labor, the name can be Encourage Immigration or something like that. It can be a lesser version of Enslaved Labor, say only one tier and 4% cost reduction.

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ValhallasAshes
Nichtganz
Join Date 02/2008
+1
Reply #13 June 13, 2012 9:46:30 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

They removed it because it didn't fit in with the lore what you need to be suggesting Bignick is that they add an ability with a similar effect but a more lore friendly name.

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ValhallasAshes
Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #14 June 13, 2012 9:48:01 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Enslaved labor at tier 3 cost 800/100/175 at level 1, which is equivalent to about 2038 credits...to pay that off, you'd need to make purchases totaling 50,938 or so credits...do what you want with that information...

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ValhallasAshes
el_phantasma
Join Date 12/2008
0
Reply #15 June 13, 2012 10:00:15 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

But it seems a bit apparent, that they removed it only due to lore concerns.

Or let me rephrase that:

Sure, Vasari can do without Enslaved Labour too..... but doesn't it look a little strange when the VL, who have a serious economic edge over the rebels anyway (planet eating, caps producing money and science), now exclusively get a credit discount tec on top of that?

I've yet to see a convincing reason why a simple rename of the tech wouldn't have been the better option.

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ValhallasAshes
Rovert10
Join Date 06/2011
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Reply #16 June 13, 2012 10:44:00 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting el_phantasma,
reply 16
But it seems a bit apparent, that they removed it only due to lore concerns.

Or let me rephrase that:

Sure, Vasari can do without Enslaved Labour too..... but doesn't it look a little strange when the VL, who have a serious economic edge over the rebels anyway (planet eating, caps producing money and science), now exclusively get a credit discount tec on top of that?

I've yet to see a convincing reason why a simple rename of the tech wouldn't have been the better option.

In all sense Vasari don't really need enslaved labor. Sure it's a nice bonus to have but they do have the best extractor economy. Also when it comes to neutral extractors you can almost guarentee Vasari will have it first and keep it due to their scouts.

The TEC matches and overruns by sheer credit income.

Advent have no such eco bonus.

 

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ValhallasAshes
el_phantasma
Join Date 12/2008
0
Reply #17 June 13, 2012 11:15:34 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Rovert10,
reply 17


In all sense Vasari don't really need enslaved labor. Sure it's a nice bonus to have but they do have the best extractor economy. Also when it comes to neutral extractors you can almost guarentee Vasari will have it first and keep it due to their scouts.

The TEC matches and overruns by sheer credit income.

Advent have no such eco bonus.

 


Yes, i wanted to denote that i'm fine with the viewpoint that they don not need it urgently.
But if they do not need it.... why are the VL, who need it even less (with all their other eco boni) still keeping it?

Or is the two-trick pony VR already deemed that overpowered that everything else ceases to matter for them balance-wise?

edit:
What i forgot tho emphasize:
What puzzles me more is the developer's approach on some things "Oh, the term Slave Labour doesn't fit the VR, let's just erase it for them!"
Or do i fail to see a reason why VL should have it but VR explicitly shouldn't?

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ValhallasAshes
Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #18 June 13, 2012 11:17:37 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting el_phantasma,
reply 16
but doesn't it look a little strange when the VL, who have a serious economic edge over the rebels anyway (planet eating, caps producing money and science), now exclusively get a credit discount tec on top of that?

I think these mechanisms are likely to be nerfed in the future so their economy may not end up as good as it is now...

 

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ValhallasAshes
Volt_Cruelerz
Join Date 06/2008
+115
Reply #19 June 13, 2012 11:20:42 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

It sounds like 1.02 will be the big balance patch for Rebellion, so we'll just have to wait and see.  Until then, it makes sense lore wise, and if you ask me, I'm fine with the nerf (and they're my favorite faction, though not because they're OP; I just love PM's too much).

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ValhallasAshes
Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #20 June 13, 2012 11:25:14 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well quite frankly I wouldn't be upset if Optimized Construction was a VL exclusive...in all honesty, it makes sense that a mobile faction would rely on reducing costs rather than improving existing income...

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ValhallasAshes
phoenixst8r
Join Date 03/2012
+2
Reply #21 June 13, 2012 12:37:24 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Rovert10,
reply 17
In all sense Vasari don't really need enslaved labor. Sure it's a nice bonus to have but they do have the best extractor economy. Also when it comes to neutral extractors you can almost guarentee Vasari will have it first and keep it due to their scouts.

The TEC matches and overruns by sheer credit income.

Advent have no such eco bonus

 

 

^^^^^^^^ This says it all =]

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Polistes
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #22 June 13, 2012 1:46:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I like the fact they took out enslaved labor for the VR rebels. As others have stated, and I had stated previously that tech does not fit in lore wise with the VR's attempts at cooperation and wanting to bring the tec and advent races with them, after all no one is going to want to leave willingly if they are enslaved and forcing them to leave with them would cause problems down the line as well, its a sound decision based on the lore and does not overall effect VR gameplay.

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ValhallasAshes
KrdaxDrkrun
Join Date 06/2010
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Reply #23 June 13, 2012 2:04:47 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

they took out enslaved labor?

since when?

It's in the Manipulation Research tree...

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ValhallasAshes
Polistes
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #24 June 13, 2012 2:07:15 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

For the Vasari rebels.

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Nichtganz
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #25 June 13, 2012 2:29:52 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting KrdaxDrkrun,
reply 24
they took out enslaved labor?

since when?

It's in the Manipulation Research tree...

 

We realize this but it doesn't make sense for the VR faction i do believe alot of the VR needs to be reworked.

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