yup yup, glad to be the bearer of good news.

Anything else you need help with besides general testing? I would do anything but my knowledge is limited, i should do a crash cource in modding sins i reckon, hehe.

You have accidently replaced the rogue cap ship model cobra destroyer with the AnnaV cap ship model. The normal AnnaV still has its original model, but the cobra also has it now.

Sure take a look at it and let me know how the moon stuff pans out. I dont mind non starbase uppgrades if the moon will always be placed in a descent position, but if its randomly placed somewhere around the map it will at times be annoying because it will not serve a tactical purpose. Like manning a machinegunpost facing a wall. However maybe it could be limited to a certain set of positions, like left-front-right of jump entrypoints. Then it would work fine with set weapons because it would always be a tactically feasible position.

Otherwise having more controll over what to build as in starbase type build menu -that you are looking into would be very nice and if implemented properly could be tactically feasible even if placed at a really bad position because you could equip it with say 8x hangar uppgrades and have like 20 figthers stationed there, or if it is placed just a little off you could still use it as a gun position but maybe only equip it with missile batteries for long range cover. Im just rambling here lol.

Have you considered having it as a non hp entity like a real planet only uppgradable like a starbase, and when it is destroyed only the uppgrades you have done are destroyed while the moon itself stays and the uppgrades can then be rebuilt. Realistically speaking it would be like we built a base on the moon and some missile silos and other installations, and then a fleet camer cruising blew away our installations on the moon and sailed on and we poor humans went back and rebuilt. This is probably the most realistic option but maybe annoyingly hard to get to work if not impossibly.

Anyway, lot of options to work with here i reckon, and all of them will be fun, you just gotta find the one that you like the best that is actually doable offcource.

Just throwing out some ideas hehe.

Your ideas for custum pacts are pretty much what i would have gone for myself, they fit well with the factions. I like the rogue/archailect/hypercorp/tec best i reckon, some i am not really sure of because of missing info on my part but im sure it fits nicely.

The generic pacts you made looks nice and seem to cover the normal areas well.

Moons also looks nice and fitting, i tried to wreck my head to come up with some special moon for hypercorp but the only thing that fit was artifical moon and that is prob more fitting for archailect. Maybe some populated moon ala their spacestation or some industrial moon, meh nm i cant come up with anything now it seems.

I am also interested in learning a bit more abouth the hypercorp and their backstory. To be more specific:

What is the hypercorps connection with nano technology, i noticed it is their favorite toy when playing as them.

You have any more info abouth the hypercorp besides what is desribed at the moddb page?

I just spent 1 hour with your newest build playing the rogue race, it seems very stable now, with any race.

I'm not much of a story writer unfortunately.

Let me take a quick stab at what Hypercorps are.

Hypercorps were behind the initial push into space and were able to survive much of the Fall when the Titans began trying to exterminate all life. Having survived the fall Hypercorps were able to maintain much of the previous advancements in biotechnology, nanotechnology, artificial intelligence, and cognitive science making them a powerful presence.

Hypercorps also aren't necessarly interested in directly running governments instead focusing on lucrative contracts with local populaces providing all types of technological improvements such as Bio-Morphs or Synth-Shells and Nano-technology. Hypercorps while remaining independant will also contract with local populations providing the military and space exploration capabilities utilizing nano-based weapons, military morphs and psionically improved transhumans.

Local populaces are more than willing to jump in bed with these Hypercorps to gain access to biotechnology allowing people to genefix, enhance, and clone their bodies, while others pursue body modifications to adapt to new environments or make themselves into something no longer quite human. Just make sure you pay on time or you may find your new morph being recalled...

I wish pacts were more moddable. I had all new pacts for Nephilim and Plague until I discovered I was limited to only 18. Been trying to come up with a good compromise since then.

Definitally true. I like the idea of starbase build options, but the tactical structure will work just as well too. Will just have to weigh out the different options and feasibility...

, must have accidentally selected the same file when doing all the triangulations I usually do a dev.exe test where I build one of everything but didn't have a chance to run that test yet.

1. and 2. are pretty good. I kinda like the AOE one though more for a utility frigate. Though the first one might be funny on a light frigate, as an anti carrier ability. Hack's the carrier's computer making it call back in it's squadrons.

3. This is actually a change I want to make. No reason to actually siege the planet with your siege frigates when you could be raiding them. I was actually thinking about adding the Siege role to the other pirate vessels to see if the AI would spam them at your planets.

4. lol, would be a funny description too with the apology. Could maybe have this setup similar to advent mines except have them be a model with the damage particle effects going on it. Rogue's variations on mines, lol.

I kind of wonder if the Envoy AI might be abused for the Rogue faction a little bit, maybe do some of the later stuff you pointed out and a nifty spy too.

Funny on the meteor though. I was going to implement something along those lines as a hangar upgrade for rogue. If you look at their hangar base you'll see why.

Hypercorp is a bit tougher I agree. Rogue was so easy to come up with ideas for...

So here's a little of what I've got designed/spec'd on Hypercorp's research tree...

Fabrication (Combat Tree)- your typical boring unlock this, upgrade that
Sub Trees: Advanced Materials, Advanced Weapons, Advanced Designs

Psionics (Defense Tree) - This tree has Teleportation, Remote Viewing, Telekinesis, Pyrokinesis, Mind Control, etc

Science (NonCombat Tree)
Sub Trees:
Nano Science: Nano Extraction, Nano Facilities, Trade/Cargo, Nano Cloaking

Transhuman Science: Terran Morphs, Desert Morphs, Ice Morphs, Volcanic Morps, Military Morphs, Toxic Morphs (it's a theme )

Quantum Science: Mesh (Quantum Communication/Culture), Phase Jump, Star Jump Calculations, Worm Hole Calculations, Quick Jump Calculation, Jump AntiMatter Reduction, Worm Hole Generator (similar to phase gates)

Aye having the rogues do less planetary destruction and resettlement and more stealing and plundering can only be good, so go ahead with the siege type cash farmer. Might aswell remove all their siege abbility well except for the caps i guess, and instead give them raid vessels that act as siege but steal instead of loot. Would change the faction nicely more into pirates because instead of seeing common spam of 5-6 vessels trying to bombard your planet into dust you would get pirate raiders trying to get rich. The emperor approves of this. If it were up to me id like an entirely new approach to taking planets for rogues but that is too hard, and having some abbility for planetary bombardment is not too out of character for the rogues i think, i can see scenarios where they would do it so letting the caps keep that abbility should work out nicely.

Yeah i see why you want a meteor for the hangar. hehe.

So the rogues are good then? You got enough ideas to toy with there i reckon, or you want more? I reckon one frigate that acts as a mobile hacking platform with the mentioned abbilities should do nicely for a utility frig, and then the changing of siege vessels to raid vessels, and why not make a fire ship? i see 2 possibly versions of it: one where it has really low hp and are slow but its explosion are fairly large and do big damage, in this case the ship should actually be able to be shot down before it gets close and explodes.

The other version would be the exact opposite and act more like a mine as you described it. I personally think i would prefer the slow big explosion, it would be a real piratish improvisation, fill up the oldest crappiest barge you got with whatever cheap soap-explosives and aim it at the enemy fleet and activate its autopilot (or tie the rudder and aim it in the genral direction:P)

I like that you have a psionic tree for hypercorp, it makes them stand out more, just try to steer them in a different direction than advent maybe so they wont be too similiar. Good idea though, The emperor approves.

Transhuman science: Morphs? i assume this is the standard pop increase for the mentioned terrain? Morphs hmm, interesting name, what made you choose morphs? I would think terraforming would come easier to mind.

Anyway you gave me something to work with with the trees, ill sit down and think abouth some abbilities for utility cruiser and starbase abbilities for hypercorp.

And whenever you have something that needs proofreading ill be happy to look it over.

By the way i looked real quick over the rogue cap ships abbility descriptions right now and there are still stuff to do!                  Cobra destroyer: reads:"...the captain clears out redundant lifesupport systems in favour of redundant repair systems" Change this to "...the captain clears out redundant lifesupport systems in favour of more repair systems" or "...the captain clears out redundant lifesupport systems and instead installs more defenses. Or whatnot.

Berzerk charge:Change to this maybe: supercharging their engines, the ship achieves a speed and acceleration that would kill an unaugmented human.

vipers kiss: The enhanced crew knows just where to place their shots to cripple enemy defences. i know you wanted to put in something related to their cyber-nature, but enhanced instead of experienced here do sound a little odd, or is it just me? Your call ofc i am just saying it as i see it.

Rogue Barrage: this def needs a new name, to put things in perspective: imagine an american general standing in hes bunker calling out "FIRE THE AMERICAN BARRAGE" and then comes from the sideline another voice "FIRE THE BRITISH SALVO" and then "FIRE THE GERMAN BOMBS", "CLEAN THE FRENCH TOILETS" etc lol. Dont say you dont agree with me.

Green arcadia:Raid ports:  it reads despatches, shoudent it be dispatches? My poor english says it should. But you can slap me if im wrong.

last man standing: instead of "when called upon" which sound like your calling for a butler maybe use "when activated".

Ghost: the "Ion bolt" abbility could maybe be changed to "Ion Cannon" and the text as it is now is: "ion disables the targeted unit, preventing it from moving or attacking" what abouth dooing: "The ion cannon disables the targeted unit, preventing it from moving or attacking for a short duration" OR "Firing the ion cannon at an enemy vessel, the enemy are left totally helpless for a short while". Or whatever you want, just put something before "ion disables"

AnnaV: mighty shot: Maybe change name, based on its description it is a missile attack, and mighty shot sounds like a cannon, can use "Missile strike/Rocket strike", "Missile salvo/Rocket Salvo" instwad i guess, seeing it is a missile attack that can hurt several along a path it neccecitates several missiles so salvo should be the most accurate.

rapid reload: Seeing this affects every ship in a radius and the description says something abouth it beeing done to impress the capt'n, wouldent inspiring presence be a much better name?

Lol some nitpicking here. I am fond of that, but you dont have to answer, i am just reminding you incase you have forgotten and trying to push my views on you like a used car salesman.

edit: discovered a bug with the nephilim. The starbase uppgrade module mass reverence can be purchased to lvl 2, but when you buy rank 2 the visible stats stay the same as lvl 1 and it is still listed as lvl 1. I dont know if it actually changes, but it looks like it dont.

: Discovered another possibly bug, the nephilim research bliss->faith->healing has 2 levels and when i buy the first i notice all my structures and ships in the viscinity of the holy shrine gain 1.5 point of hull  repaired/sec, but when i purchase rank 2 it stays at 1.5 and i dont see any change. Maybe it gives something that is not visible but i just thought id let you know just incase.

: came across two names for plague cap ships that i thought sounded a mite off: pluto and osiris. I know pluto is a different name for hades but it was used when speaking of the underworld in a positive matter, and well, the plague is anything but positive, and osiris wasnt in any way seem as evil so i found the names a bit strange.

Im adding a few fitting mythical evil names incase you feel the urge to replace some, if you want the meaning aswell just let me know:

Abbadon, Demogorgon, Lamia, Nergal, Apep, Dagon, Kali, Leviathan, Mammon, Malphas, Moloch, Orcus, Morana.

: the invictus class cap ship has an abbility called retaliation, it is a damage shield, Why does this not show the duration of the effect? I have noticed that in other mods aswell. This type of abbility never shows duration. Its kinda annoying not knowing how long it lasts. Is this some hardcoded bull in the engine or something perhaps?

: the plague blood hunter vessel has two abbilities that can be researched, one work just fine because it requires no matter but the other requires matter and therein lies the problem, because the blood hunter got zero matter.

: regarding the biochemical receptor growth research is it only supposed to affect cap ships, the previous 3 researches in the same tree each added a stacking 10% to various areas for both frigs, buildings and caps but the 4 research biochemical growth research only seem to give the last 10% to cap ships, is this intentional or a bug?

: i also came up with an abbility for hypercorp:  Clone/cloning center/Cloning lab/cloning facility/whatever:it can be an abbility for a cap ship or for a structure/starbase. The corporation clones its most valuable employees so as to not loose their service should an untimely death occur. This way, when a skilled captain is killed in battle, the corporation can bring him back to continue hes job. This will be like the ressurection abbility of the advent in effect, target a ship and give it the higher level of a deseased crew. (if that is how that ability works, ive kinda forgotten)

: besides that i kept thinking that a hypercorp should have some financial research aka, stock market, stock manipulation, corporate payout etc, just take the terms from the corporations of today and wall street i guess, they are as corrupt as they come, i just had to say that.

: Meh, bad news, the hypercorp still ctd's when you manually click on the crystal extractor, note it only does so on the crystal extractor, not the metal extractor. You can build them from the planetary build meny just fine but the crystal extractor is no-no manually. My appolgies for the mistake when i reported it fixed, i must have failed to check what extractor i was clicking on.

Potato! No POTATO! Hehe.

Glad everything worked out, i guess you have some stuff to occupy yourself with implementing now, ill see if i come across any more bugs when playing, but they are a dying breed. Ill think on more abbilities for the hypercorp and the rogue starbase aswell as utility frigs for the corpies and see if i can dredge something up, let me knw if there is anything besides that you want done.

Good news on the starbases, but does that mean that you will only be allowed 1 star base and not both the moonbase and the normal one? That will be like potato no poteto. We need both! or its like: "i am giving you this!" And we are like "yeah " and then you are like: "but i am taking this in return, muahahaha!!" <shakes head>

Hm yeah, atleast i was thinking population, would be far easier to build a huge city on the moon than a floating city in in the sky, and i can easily picture us inhabiting the moon sometime in the future, "Exotic resort for the rich" ugh.. lol.

What are you thinking abouth uppgrades, just blue copies of the various starbase uppgrades, 2 tiers or a different approach entirely? another factor that matters is how much controll you have over the moons placement/how much controll you choose to exercise. If its in a bad place its guns wont be of much use, but i talked of all this in an earlier post. Let me know a bit more what you are considering.

Hmm too bad with the extractors but i think your solutuion wil pan out just fine.

Too be honest i have never understood how an orbitol base can prevent someone from taking the planet, all they need to do is land troops on the other side of the planet. Hehe. But yeah i guess the standard uppgrades would be fine, you just need something special to make the starbase stand out or it will just be an alternate skin for the regular starbase, is there a limit on how many tiers each uppgrade can have by the way? like for instance could you have 8 tiers of say population or weapons?

You introduced something really nice when you added a 5 abbility to the rogue capitals, its so damm booring having 10 levels and 10 abbilities, you know you get them all in pretty much no time. Much more fun having to choose what abbility you want.

Would it be possibly to have it act similiar to a planet? As in you would have to colonice it to start building on it, and when it is attacked and brough to zero hp then you would in effect loose the moon similiar to loosing a planet to bombardment, but the moon would still be there, and you would need to recolonice it and rebuild unless the enemy decided to posess it. Hmm would prob be impossibly to code heh. Anyway it is good news that you have more freedom to work with abbilities on the moon, i personally like the idea that you could choose among many high tier abbilities, in effect deciding that your moon could be a huge population center, bristling with deadly defences or any combination of the abbilities you put there. They should have done that with reg starbases too imo, weapons: many ranks, hp/hull regen: many ranks, shield/shield regen: many ranks, population: many ranks, culture: many ranks, hangars: many ranks etc. It would give players alot more choice in what to take, as it stands now its pretty clear cut what you go for.

I guess moons should have : 1 population, 2: Offensive installations, 3: defensive installations 4: Maybe culture 5: special race related stuff

Depending on how many abbilities you have to choose from you could even split the abbilities up into more specific areas like laser batteries for short range heavy damage and missile silos for long range weaker damage, shield generators for planetary shields,  fortified positions for more hull and hp etc etc.

The more i think abouth it though, the less i like the idea of a moon just beeing destrtoyed like a regular starbase. Hmm.

Any moon that is orbiting the planet is really just part of the planet mesh. While visually pleasing this has no effect on gameplay. Black holes might be interesting though. Distant Stars has those too.

So are you any closer to deciding what you will do with the moon-base Zombie?

I still think you should be able to build both on the moon and have a regular starbase by the way lol... i just had to say that again.

Not my version, but....  That was basically my point, they don't work right.  They don't work right in ANY mod because the effect used doesn't work, but it's the best we've got available.  I understand you're being supportive of your favorite mod, but from a modder's point of view, it's broken, just like all of the other attempts.

Now at one point, I did have an effect that did suck ships in, however there was no way for the ship to break free of this pull which resulted in me putting a time limit on it so they had the opportunity to get away.  The problem at that point was that the ship just played tug-of-war.  The effect would pull, the ship would drive away, the effect would pull, the ship would drive away, the effect would pull, the ship would drive away...  And so on until the ship escaped or the black hole destroyed it.  While technically, it worked, visually, it sucked bad.  No pun intended.  So bad in fact, that I just threw the whole thing out.

Besides any of that mess, AI's don't know what to do when running into one of these, so when used in a game, you can watch massive fleets drive in, and stupidly, drive right across the event horizon and get killed.  Maelstrom put limits on the damage, I assume, because of this, which is perfectly fine because the player just avoids them in the first place, so it saves the AI.  But like I said before, as a player, it leaves me disappointed.  As a modder, I'm aware of the limitations so I accept it as a valid attempt.

Nobody's doing that, just discussing the mechanics involved in the process of one entity.

I don't think this is possible based on my understanding. For one the only colonizable entities are planets. Moons could start as a neutral entity requiring the player to capture it which would simulate a colonize. The next part about not being able to destroy the moon is more problematic as the choices are somewhat limited. If I could reliably simulate this by destroying the star base and putting a normal moon back in it's place it could work. But my recollection is trying to create entities on death doesn't work well (I'll retest to verify though).

Good ideas. I'm thinking I'll build a standard moon star base template and get it deployed for all races and then build on some of the cooler stuff.

I understand, I'm wondering if a more persistent explosion effect could be done too that renders a destroyed moon that is no longer an impact in the game.

I wish you could limit starbases in the gravity well by race and type, that way you could have more than one but not two of the same. It's an easy option though on Home planets to enable two starbases if needed.

I appreciate it too, and gave some silent kharma earlier. Black holes are an interesting feature, but killing the AI is not as much fun.

Actually, this would be interesting as a modifier to planets with trade ports.

And now back to basketball games for another weekend tourny...

I noticed, thanks.

Enjoy the B-Ball.