real life satire - better than watching tv.

KFC posts:

Re: the highlighted.

That massacre had no connection whatsoever with the Catholic Church. The Church did not instigate the massacre, nor did the Pope have any knowledge of it beforehand nor did he ever urge it upon the French Court in any way.  The massacre was a purely politically and deplorable murder engineered by Catherine de Medici, a woman almost completely irreligious. She planned the murder the evening before it took place to avert the possible consequences of her attempted assassination of Coligny on August 22.

After its occurence a lying report was sent to the Pope that it was a successful repression of a plat to murder the king. When the Pope learned the real facts, he expressed his horror and condemnation and denounced the massacre "as unlawful and forbidden by God." He refused to allow one of the leaders of the attack to be presented to him, saying he would not receive a murderer.

Most honest Protestant historians know the responsibility of the dastardly deed must rest on Catherine de Medicis.

 Also exactly how many were killed during the massacre will never be accurately known. The estimates range from 2,000 to 110, 000 which proves the figure is guesswork. An account book by the Abbe de Cavierac mentions the burial of 1,100 victims in the Cemetery of the Innocents, while the Huguenot Martyrology published in 1581, could only obtain the names of 786.

None of it is right KFC. 

You are the one who first brought up Protestants in majority Catholic Poland...

Are they allowed to vote?

lula posts:

kfc posts # 73

You say “no” but this is not new, for Protestantism consists of denials and substitutions for revealed Truth.

I say yes. St.Matt. 16:18-19 shows Christ established a very specific Church…He built His Church upon the rock of St.Peter which later would be called the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. Other passages support St.Matt. 16.  The CC holds Christ to be the Eternal Rock, the invisible Foundation of His Church and that He selected St.Peter as the secondary rock upon which He built His visible Church, which is His Mystical Body. Just as Christ is the Good Shepherd, yet He selected St. Peter to be the Shepherd of His flock, ’’”Feed My lambs,” “Feed My sheep”. That’s why Christ is called the Good Shepherd and the Pope is called the Shepherd of Christendom.

Christ also called this Divine spiritual society His household 10:25, His flock, 26:31 and 36 times “the kingdom”. The Church is the spiritual kingdom of the Messias. It stands to reason that such a household, flock, kingdom, or Church must have someone in it who ranks in authority, who has primacy, the first rank. St.Matt 16 tells us that person was St.Peter, appointed by Christ Himself.  St.Matt. 16 tells us that Chris told gave St.Peter His authority to make decisions and that He would back them in Heaven. Since Jesus promised to be with His Church until the end of time, that same authority would have to remain with whomever succeeded St.Peter and the other Apostles down through the ages.  That continuance necessitates successors and their authority is the teaching Magisterium of the CC.

Because the Church is part Divine with Christ as her Eternal Head and Chief Cornerstone, the Church is indestructible. Because the Church was Divinely established to exist during all time, she’s not capable of being destroyed from attacks from without or from within. That’s what the gates of hell will not prevail means. All the other churches will come and go but the CC will last until the end of time…as she is the Bride of Christ, the wife of the Lamb who will eat at one table at the wedding banquet.  

Like I said, Protestantism consists of substitutions for revealed Truth.

Christ gave His authority and power “to bind and loose on earth” to His Church starting with St.Peter and then the  Apostles..As the Book of Acts clearly points out, the Apostles passed on their authority and power by ordaining other good men by the laying on of hands and not to “all believers in many denominations.”

Claim what you will, but there is not one Protestant believer who has Divine authority “to bind and loose”.

Good to see Zoomba is still around.

Well Catholic means "universal."  So from that definition Christ did create a "catholic (universal) church" but he did NOT set up the denomination that we know today is the RCC. 

The Apostle John tells us to "test the spirits" to see where they are from.  I'm constantly reminded of this when I look around at all the stuff going on personally, locally and nationally.   This is the latest coming out of the London Times.  Again which spirit can we see here?

Sex abuse scandals in the Roman Catholic Church are proof that that "the Devil is at work inside the Vatican", according to the Holy See's chief exorcist.

Father Gabriele Amorth, 85, who has been the Vatican's chief exorcist for 25 years and says he has dealt with 70,000 cases of demonic possession, said that the consequences of satanic infiltration included power struggles at the Vatican as well as "cardinals who do not believe in Jesus, and bishops who are linked to the Demon".

He added: "When one speaks of 'the smoke of Satan' [a phrase coined by Pope Paul VI in 1972] in the holy rooms, it is all true – including these latest stories of violence and pedophilia."

He claimed that another example of satanic behavior was the Vatican "cover-up" over the deaths in 1998 of Alois Estermann, the then commander of the Swiss Guard, his wife and Corporal Cedric Tornay, a Swiss Guard, who were all found shot dead. "They covered up everything immediately," he said. "Here one sees the rot".

A remarkably swift Vatican investigation concluded that Corporal Tornay had shot the commander and his wife and then turned his gun on himself after being passed over for a medal. However, Tornay's relatives have challenged this. There have been unconfirmed reports of a homosexual background to the tragedy and the involvement of a fourth person who was never identfied.

As far as coverups I know firsthand this is true.  My Dad worked for a big city Fire Dept.  Whenever there was any sort of crime scene in the 60's and 70's regarding the RCC they had a much different protocol for handling the emergency than normal procedure including shutting off all sirens and lights. 

Re: the highlighted.....So says the PROTEST-ant.

The one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church, like her Founder, is both human and divine. The Divine part of the Church is expressed correctly as the Mystical Body of Christ. The human part are those baptized into new life in Christ. Scripture, St.Matt. chapters 16-18, is dogmatically clear that Our Lord Jesus Christ  founded a Church as the way to bring His salvific message to the world.  

This is why the CC is not a denomination like all those that arose after 1517. Protestant denominations (sects) are constantly being remade by their members...their faith, doctrines adapt according to the age or culture. Not so with the CC..with her God-given authoratitave priesthood her constant and unchangeable teachings of Christ to His Apostles passed down through the ages.

As far as explaining why the CC and Catholicism is not denomination, George Weigel said it best...I'll paraphrase...

Protestant denominations are human created and something Protestants join....The CC is a Divinely instituted society into which her members are made new in Christ by the Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation and the Holy Eucharist.

Protestant denominatons have members like a club...the CC has members as a human body has arms, legs, fingers and toes.

Protestant denominations are all over the place doctrinally and morally....the CC is nourished by Creeds and moral convictions that clearly establish set boundaries. 

Protestant denominations can be altered at the will of its members...the CC has a form and structure given to it by Christ...her ministerial priesthood according to the order of Melchisedech with St.Peter's successors, the Bishop of Rome, who presides over the whole Church in charity, becasue Christ wills these for His Church.

There are Biblical metaphors for the CC that do not fit all the Protestant denominatons. The Church is a sheepfold, the sole and necessary gateway to which is Christ. St.john 10:1-10. It's also a flock, of which God foretold that He Himself would be the SHepherd, Is. 40:11; Ezek. 34:11. and whose sheep although watched over by human shepherds are nevertheless at all times led and brought to pasture by Christ Himself, the Good Shepherd and prince of shepherds. 10:11; 1St.Peter 5:4 and who gave His life for the sheep. 10:11-15.

There are Biblical images drawn from architechiture to describe the CC that do not fit all the Protestant denominations. The Church is the "building of God" 1Cor. 3:9 whose Cornerstone is Christ St.Matt. 21:42. Built by the Apostles on the one "Foundation Eternal Rock" which is Christ 1Cor. 3:11 with the Apostles as the foundation stones, with St.Peter as the head St.Matt. 16:18-19. The CC is the "household of God in the Spirit", the dwelling place of God among men Apoc. 21:3; and the holy temple ....as living stones we here on earth are built into it 1St.Peter 2:5. The CC is also as the Holy city, and the holy city is described as "the Jerusalem which is above" Gal. 4:26, and the "spotless spouse of the Lamb" Apoc. 19:7 whom Christ "loved and for whom He delivered Himself taht He might sanctify her" Eph. 5:25-26.

kfc posts:

Actually I agreed with you. I know well that the ancient Romans persecuted the early Chruch. I just reminded you that before Rome persecuted the first Christian converts, they persecuted the Jews and cited that Titus slaughtered tens of thousands of Jews when he destroyed the Temple and Jerusalem in 70AD.

We discussed that the fledgling early Church experienced the Holy Spirit at Pentecost in Jerusalem.  It was in Jerusalem that the multitudes were converted and baptized. This fulfilled Christ's prediction...""You shall be My witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth." Acts 1:8

The first few chapters of Acts tell of the life of the early Church in Jerusalem. It records how the Infant Chruch was growing but at the same time the Jews who rejected Christ persecuted the first Christian converts. The Gospel is spread but not without persecution by the Jewish establishment, ending in the martyrdom of St. Stephen.

But Scripture is clear that the Jews were hostile first to Christ then to the Jewish converts. In St. John, "for fear of the Jews" comes up quite often.  So, yes, Jews were persecuting the first Christians who had converted from Judaism. Read the story of the man born blind but was healed by Jesus. Word of the miracle spread but the Jews who opposed Christ wouldn't believe it and in order to confirm the Jews sent for the blind man's parents (who were also Jewish), but they were intimidated, refusing to speak about it "out of fear of the Jews, who had already agreed to expel from the synagogue anyone who should acknowledge Jesus as the Christ." St.John 9:22.

So right there in the Gospels we see a split and the hostility that would lead to persecution for some time even after Christ's death. Once Jesus claimed to be the "Son of man", He called for a decision from the Jews. St.John 7:11, "At the festival the Jews were on the lookout for Him: "Where is He?", they said. People stood in groups whispering about Him. Some said, "He is a good man."; others "No, He is leading the people astray." Yet, no one spoke about Him openly for fear of the Jews."

Wow Lula.  I actually agree with your posting #91.   I just want to add that when it says "The Jews" in the gospels or Acts generally it means the Jewish leaders.  They were very much against Christ and then later his followers.  Paul was included in that until he was converted and then he was attacked as he attacked previously. 

but your posting #92 is another matter.  You can stop quoting Peter and the Rock now.  You've more than not worn that verse out here.  You know I disagree so why do you keep pushing? 

I disagree.  Who says it's the RCC?  Not Jesus.  So what does it mean? 

Jesus said,  18 "And I tell you, you are Peter and on this rock I will build My Chruch, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven, and whatsoever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven." St.Matt. 16: 18-19.

kfc

Well, OK, I can understand your saying this. However, in order to properly discuss verse 19, the God-given power or authority to bind and loose, then verse 18 comes into play. For the full context and meaning, v. 19 can't be split from v. 18. Why should we split the two when OUr Lord said it all at the same time the same person?

For example, v. 19 Christ's promise of giving was to one person only....St.Peter. And the keys to the kingdom ....kingdom refers directly back to His Church in v. 18. 

lula posts:

kfc posts:

OK, please explain.

From a strictly political viewpoint, you are correct.  In order to persecute, you have to have authority.  And since at the time of Christ, the Jews were not in charge, they could only discriminate or "be unfriendly" to the new sect. Even Herrod passed the buck.

KFC POSTS:

regarding the highlighted: Well, if you did, I can't find it.

In 86, you said 

A....you haven't backed that up and B....I refuted your explanation in 92.   

kfc posts:

OK. Next post I'll explain what St,Matt. 16:18-19 and 18:18 means in reference "to bind and loose".