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iamheather
Join Date 10/2001
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Target Stores Ban Holiday Tradition!

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November 28, 2004 1:18:53 AM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Recently, Taget retail stores imposed a nation wide ban on the traditional holiday bell ringers of the Salvation Army. Even as a child, I adored these bell ringers with their red buckets. I remember feeling like they were somehow a part of Santa's helpers.

Today, I always give my children some money to put into the red bucket. I take the opportunity to explain to them the meaning of charity. During a holiday season, when it is so easy to get caught up with the "I want, I want, I want," the Salvation Army bell ringers provide an opportunity to discuss those that need. My children get so excited to put the money in the bucket, and the volunteer smiles and wishes them happy holidays.

It is a tradition. I am saddened that Target has taken this approach.

The donations collected at Target alone were enough to feed 6,000 needy people for a third of the year, according to the Salvation Army.

“We’re going to lose 112 days of food service for the hungry because of (Target’s) decision,” said Russ Russell, Salvation Army executive director of development
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iamheather
Rod Brock
Join Date 11/2004
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Reply #1 November 28, 2004 1:36:13 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Target is not the only organization to impose such a ban. The U.S. Posmaster General has also forbidden bell-ringers at U.S. Post Offices. I guess the official
proclamation came down last year, but most postmasters at the local level chose to ignore the word from the top last season. Not so, this year -- at least not this
area (Seattle - NW Washington area).
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iamheather
dabe
Join Date 09/2003
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Reply #2 November 28, 2004 1:45:15 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I don't understand. Why did they ban them? I read the article you linked to, but it didn't say why? One thing is certain..... all these cuts to all these agencies is taking a real bite out of agencies that provide real assistence to those that need it. We are living in very tough times, and it will get tougher before it gets better, unfortunately.
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iamheather
iamheather
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Reply #3 November 28, 2004 1:45:42 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Target is not the only organization to impose such a ban. The U.S. Posmaster General has also forbidden bell-ringers at U.S. Post Offices.


Yes, I am aware of that. Target just changed their position this year, however.
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iamheather
iamheather
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Reply #4 November 28, 2004 1:55:42 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I don't understand. Why did they ban them? I read the article you linked to, but it didn't say why?


Salvation Army bell ringers had long been the exception to Target’s standing ban on solicitation outside its stores. This month, the company announced that it was closing the loophole. “We receive an increasing number of solicitation inquiries from nonprofit organizations each year and determined that if we continue to allow the Salvation Army to solicit, then it opens the doors to other groups who wish to solicit our guests,” the company announced in a statement. A Target spokeswoman declined to comment further.


That was in the article you read.
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iamheather
KarmaGirl
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #5 November 28, 2004 10:05:03 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

A lot of stores are trying to be fair.  You can't say it is "OK" for one organization to solicit outside your store yet turn down others because of a "no solicitation" policy.

I don't mind the bell ringers, but the ones around my area do more than just bell ring.  They ask you to donate as you walk by.  It gets a bit tiring when you donate to the first one and just don't want to donate to each one.

The other side to this that is not mentioned in the artcle is that companies are trying not to affiliate with any particular religious group.  People tend to forget that the Salvation Army is a ministry.

You can always make a donation on line (any time of year- people always need food) - https://secure3.salvationarmy.org/donations.nsf/donate?openform&projectid=USN-USN_redshield

or, give at your local Salvation Army (I've found that they take all sorts of household items as well as clothes and money).

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iamheather
iamheather
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Reply #6 November 29, 2004 1:21:53 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
You can always make a donation on line (any time of year- people always need food) - https://secure3.salvationarmy.org/donations.nsf/donate?openform&projectid=USN-USN_redshield


Thank you for the link, KarmaGirl

that companies are trying not to affiliate with any particular religious group. People tend to forget that the Salvation Army is a ministry.


I think they refrain from preaching when bell ringing, however. At least I have never had one begin "witnessing."
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iamheather
iamheather
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Reply #7 November 29, 2004 2:06:33 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Myself, i'd suggest that if you want to help others this winter, take a bag of your old clothes and blankets directly to those who need it. They arent hard to find. Or, barring that, donate to a small, inner city church, they have poor congregations and are intimately familiar with who needs what...and they arent going to charge the recipients a dime for their services, either.


Great point, little_whip. I tend to donate all clothing and blankets to a community based charity.
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iamheather
Gideon MacLeish
Join Date 06/2004
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Reply #8 November 29, 2004 2:30:59 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

The other side to this that is not mentioned in the artcle is that companies are trying not to affiliate with any particular religious group. People tend to forget that the Salvation Army is a ministry.


Salvation Army is a ministry, yes, but one that does NOT discriminate against aid recipients on the basis of their faith. I, for one, am growing more and more tired of the fervent attempts of so many to drive any Christian display, expression, etc, into the underground. I have to drive 75 miles to get to a Target, so I don't shop there anyway, but this would reaffirm my decision.

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iamheather
Rightwinger
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #9 November 29, 2004 3:10:38 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Salvation Army is a ministry, yes, but one that does NOT discriminate against aid recipients on the basis of their faith. I, for one, am growing more and more tired of the fervent attempts of so many to drive any Christian display, expression, etc, into the underground. quote]---Gideon Macleish

Amen to that.

There are Targets all over the place here; we also have the option of Meijer, Wal-Mart, KMart and Value City.
I think I may avoid Target for the remainder of this holiday season, and I just might tell them why.

My father-in-law served in the Pacific during World War 2, and once told us how he'd always give money to the Salvation Army before he'd give to any other charity, especially the hated (from his viewpoint, anyway) Red Cross.
It seems that, when he was shipping out for California on his way to New Guinea, those two institutions were both at the train station, serving sandwiches and beverages to the servicemen.
The only difference was that the Red Cross was charging a nickle for sandwiches, a dime for coffee or sodapop; the Salv. Army's stuff was free.
He said something to the effect that "We were all shipping out for the war; lots of us wouldn't be coming back; they had to make sure they got their money, so they charged us for the food they gave us."
He never gave another red cent to the RC, but the Salv. Army always got a buck or so whenever he passed a kettle.
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iamheather
Texas Wahine
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #10 November 29, 2004 3:22:56 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I love Target.
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iamheather
iamheather
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Reply #11 November 29, 2004 3:40:22 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I love Target.


So do I! Better than Wal*Mart, even!
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iamheather
Texas Wahine
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #12 November 29, 2004 3:48:22 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
They've got cool stuff. We don't have Targets here, but I'm looking forward to spending some QT in the one in Amarillo when I come home in a couple of weeks!
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iamheather
KarmaGirl
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #13 November 29, 2004 4:59:49 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

The only difference was that the Red Cross was charging a nickle for sandwiches, a dime for coffee or sodapop; the Salv. Army's stuff was free.

But what about modern day?  What about the times that we live in now?  Is Salvation Army over helping our troops out, or is it the red cross that is helping?  What about during our hurricanes?  What did the SA do?  And, what did the Red Cross do?

I have no problem with any religion.  However, I really don't like hypocrites.  If a store says "no solicitation" it should mean it.  It shouldn't matter if it is religion based or not.  And, it's not like Target isn't charitable on their own.  They have gift cards that donate to St. Judes, they help with toys for tots, gives grants for *many* charities, gives educational donations, etc.  I think that it is quite unfair to make them sound like they are evil and bad simply because they are trying to have a fair policy.

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iamheather
Silver_and_Jade_Tears
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #14 November 29, 2004 5:06:40 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Just so everyone knows...Target decided not to allow the SA because other "charities" were threatening to sue Target for only allowing the SA. Target couldn't afford to be sued, what with the economy, so they decided to stop the SA, as well as any other charities.

And yes, I can get a link for that if you so desire. It will take me a minute though, so let me know if you don't believe me.
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iamheather
iamheather
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Reply #15 November 29, 2004 6:25:37 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I just felt like it was sad to see them go. I really won't stop sending money to charities. I have given 5 times this year to the Red Cross. I am just going to miss the conversation that the bell ringers ignited with my children each year about charity. Just because the bell ringers aren't at Target, doesn't mean we won't shop there or even see the bell ringers some other place. My children and I will still have our charity talk and adopt children from the "angel tree" to buy presents for them.

For some reason this news just struck me as sad.
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iamheather
Texas Wahine
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #16 November 29, 2004 6:29:16 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
adopt children from the "angel tree" to buy presents for them.


I do that every year, and it is one of the things I look forward to most about Christmas. Since I have boys, I love picking out a little girl to buy clothes and toys for . . . it's so fun! I think it's important to teach (and model) giving with our children. Good for you, heather (though it doesn't surprise me one bit considering the sweet, generous person you are!).
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iamheather
iamheather
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Reply #17 November 29, 2004 8:44:24 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Since I have boys, I love picking out a little girl to buy clothes and toys for . . . it's so fun!


Do the boys get as excited about buying for a little girl as you do? I know when I had my daughter, I was dangerous in Target! It is so much fun!

I think it's important to teach (and model) giving with our children


I agree. It is one of the highest calls of any good parent to teach charity through actions. Thanks for the compliment, Tex. Doesn't surprise me either that you knew exactly what I was speaking about. I somehow knew you had done this same type of thing before.
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iamheather
LeapingLizard
Join Date 10/2004
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Reply #18 November 29, 2004 10:24:14 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Personally, i dont like the Salvation Army.

I'm with you on this ine. I don't like them either. I think it's all a facade.
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iamheather
island_gurl12
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #19 November 30, 2004 1:05:31 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Hehe, i love target too. Cheap n cool (wink to wahine...).

Anyhoo, to get back to the subject i hope you'll still be able to donate to the needy ones. X-mas is always tough when you're outta money. By the way anyone want to donate a computer to island_gurl do not hesitate! (jkn )

The angel tree is such a good idea. I just hope they dont misuse the money they receive like so many other so called charity groups do.
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iamheather
iamheather
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Reply #20 November 30, 2004 1:14:17 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
The angel tree is such a good idea. I just hope they dont misuse the money they receive like so many other so called charity groups do.


The cool thing about the angel tree is that you buy things. For example:

Little Girl named: X
X wears a size 10 shoe, 5 pants, 2 shirt
She loves blah blah blah
She would love to have a blah this Christmas

You purchase those things in any combination and quantity that you want. You then turn the items in with your "angel's" name....very difficult to misuse.

It is awesome and so much fun!
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iamheather
SSG Geezer
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #21 December 6, 2004 6:23:49 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I am trying to be fair to the Red Cross but the Salvation Army has it all over them in many ways. The cash for services demanded by the red cross applies at disaster areas also from everything I have heard.
While the SA does not demand repayment. They get my CFC money every year since I know people who were taken off the street, into treatment, and trained in a new job due to their efforts. Perhaps this is why Joan Kroc,
The McDonalds Heiress gave them 1.6 Billion. She saw it work in San Diego and gave this gift to build more community centers.
The fact that they cannot assist everyone is a fact of life since they have a much smaller pool of resources than the Red Cross. The red cross certainly pays it's employees well for being a non-profit. Ask anyone who manages
a branch office. They loved to sell smokes to GI's dying in the triage tents of France during WWI and I doubt that they have changed much since. Rightwingers dad has it right. Donut dollies did it for the money.
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iamheather
iamheather
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Reply #22 December 6, 2004 6:36:02 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
While the SA does not demand repayment


I know people who were taken off the street, into treatment, and trained in a new job due to their efforts.


Very interesting information. Thank you for sharing, SSG.
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iamheather
messybuu
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #23 December 6, 2004 6:50:30 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
It sounds like a case of "Damned if you do, damned if you don't," for Target. I don't blame them for what they did. I blame the other charities for ruining it for SA.
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iamheather
SSG Geezer
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #24 December 6, 2004 6:53:18 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
And an insightful for you oh messy of buu!
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iamheather
iamheather
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Reply #25 December 6, 2004 7:06:22 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
It sounds like a case of "Damned if you do, damned if you don't," for Target. I don't blame them for what they did. I blame the other charities for ruining it for SA.


Me too! Or the lawyers at the least.
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