Seen as I play mostly PUGs, I have to say from personal preference and experience Ooze is a better all round build.

Simply the lack of need of mana items is a huge advantage. As far as DG Killer goes, kills tend to be slow at the beginning, but ramp up as the game progresses.

Spit is certainly useful, but overall I would feel confident that any Spit or Hybrid build will lose to the Ooze build.

I wouldn't say that Ooze is necessarily just for tanking, in the games I have played never has a Spit Build racked up as many kills.

Once an ooze is in close, then the DG will rarely be able to run away due to grasp, Wand of Speed and diseased claws. Certainly at the beginning to mid game, you may lose out on some perceived kills as the players can get away. However, making them run is enough for me.

Still people will never agree on which build is better, so let them go Hybrid or Spit, I look forward to dishing out damage.

The only problem I have with this, is that you can upgrade your armour along the way, only at 20% loss. Saving up 13K IMO (for girdle, which is the first artifact worthwhile) is a waste of time, there are plenty of great Ooze items like Platemail or Groffling, Slayers Wraps even Godplate, which are worth investing in until you can purchase other items. You can sell them to get the artifacts/citadel upgrades when you need them.

If I get forced to the crystal, then I will upgrade my items if I have the cash. Being forced back is an indication I am not strong enough. The only time I don't bother upgrading, is when you are winning so badly there is no point, as you don't need to go back to the crystal.

You need 6k just to get the basic gear for an Ooze UB, not counting health pots, wand of speed, TP scrolls, or flag locks. I'm curious how you can run a hybrid, which also requires mana, for less money than that.

As I mentioned, I wouldn't classify what I play as a "hybrid" build so the details of the "official hybrid build" escape me.  However, the way I run is fairly straight forward and utilizes your typical in-game strategies.  Maybe a bit of the confusion comes from the overall goal of what your gear is to do for you.  You mentioned the "basic gear for an Ooze UB" and I'm not sure what this means.  Why do you need all of that?  What does it achieve?  Does that essentially mean that you never have to return back to the crystal for health (as I assume the ooze builds buy gear with hp/hp regen/armor focuses only, to negate the drain on life from ooze)?

You see, my 5750 gear doesn't mean I don't ever run out of health or mana and that's really just not a big deal.  It's apart of the game and doesn't provide any weakness anyway.  That's what the crystal is there for.  My gear simply means that I have everything I need to kill an enemy demigod effectively, with the use of basic strategy and team work.  If I don't have the upper hand and I know I'm not going win, I'll know before I'm down to half health and so I simply run away.  Is this something the "Ooze Build" doesn't have to worry about? 

Wait, I just had a revelation - is the point of this discussion to see who comes out on top when the two are set in an arena and told to fight until one dies?  Well sure, who ever stacked health and armor items will always win.  That's a given though and not really practical to "real world" experiences playing the game.

(rereading my own post, I sound a bit like a rambling man.  you'll have to try your best to forgive me.  it's been a scattered kind of day... )

the basic Ooze health item package is this:

Banded Armor

Scalemail

Unbreakable Boots

Nimoth Chestguard

Hauberk of Life

those 5 are the first you'll generally buy and they fill up your 5 slots. it costs 5700 gold. you'll probably sell off the Banded Armor for Narmoth's Ring when you can afford it. you may also sell off Scalemail and replace it with Platemail of the Crusader or Groffling Warplate or maybe even Godplate. 

the idea is that you use very little mana and regenerate health VERY fast when your ooze is off. you NEVER make a crystal run. one of the big advantages is the staying power. again, the goal wasn't to easily achieve quick kills on enemy DG's. the goal is to force them out of the lane every time. they'll die if they stick around too long or if you get a team-kill. team-kills are better anyway, assists produce maximum gold for your team. the amount of lane pressure you can put on with a build that NEVER goes to the crystal can turn the tide of many games. 

again, this is a discussion of roles. a team needs a strong killer as well. a hybrid beast is a killer and if thats what the team needs that what you should play. but if you've got a Reg or an Erebus or something like that you might be better off letting them go for the killer role while you play anchor as your Tank geared Ooze Beast. 

and once again i'll bring up that the whole point is moot if you're playing at low skill levels where you only ever worry about 1on1s. if thats your game you just play Hybrid, period. its the best for dueling 1on1. 

Exactly; once you get the first five items, you have great HP/s, enough to heal a lot of damage without Ooze on (A better figure for cash might be 10k, because once you get Narmoth's you essentially never need to go to the crystal because you can turn off Ooze and heal 3k HP in a minute anyway). So at 6k you are essentially unpushable but might have to go to the crystal after maybe three individual fights where you pushed away the enemy (excluding fights you were forced to run from), and at 10k you will never need to leave your lane unless the enemy DGs are cooperating to push you specifically.

 By comparing my build with transitive's "usual" ooze build I can see that I have more HPS and a higher damage output, but less armor and health. So, any thoughts on this?[/quote]

My thought: You spent more money than the usual build transitive posted, so your stats are worthless.

Actually I spent about 10550 gold with the above. According to him he spent 10510 so unless 40 gold is a big difference.....

EDIT: Redoing the math, I actually only spent 10500 gold max if I went for Platemail. If I went for Narmoth instead I'd spend 10000. So I spent less than him either way.

To be honest I used to play a spit build with an insane amount of damage. Even now that I switched over I'm still a bit of a whore for kills, so I have trouble letting go of offensive power.

 

Agreed, I only get Platemail instead of Narmoth when I have a significant lead over my opponents. The extra armor lets me take down towers and recieve almost no damage, allowing me to end the game earlier. Otherwise I'll get Narmoth and save up for mageslayer/giants.

wrong

Reading over the whole of these posts, i can come to a small conclusion. This is purely opiniative, and from my own observations reading, and playing all 3 builds.

Spit Beast: Very strong early game, and especially strong in pug games where the enemy team does not have good DG composition, or good communication to counter spit. Without an oak or sedna, it is very difficult to mitigate the damage from spit. And here is where spit shines. (Doh! bad pun). Early game, 1 v 1, basic matches. Gives you good chances of coming out on top in battles.

Hybrid Beast: Very well rounded, although not very strong in any one regard. It is strong early game, and strong mid game, but loses its power late game from a lack of focus. This build seems to fare better than the spit beast in more situations, although the lack of health and depedance on mana to complete the dps makes it an easier target for spikers and for towers.

Ooze Beast: This beast had no staying power in the beggining, and is really limited until about level 4 or 5 when foul grasp comes in. 1 v 1, ooze beast will get beast early game by pretty much anyone, as you do not have the items, or the natural stats to endure your own ooze. However, if you are in larger, team games, not pugs, ooze beast becomes more viable quicker. With coordinated heals and shields, your whole teams gains a strong anchor and a very durable ally. Late game, ooze beast deals incredible dps, although there are severe weaknesses to killing towers and dealing with tower rook.

It would seem that each build is viable in any number of situations. And this is key. You cannot argue which skill is purely better, otherwise it would seem something is inherently wrong with the game itself. It you had a skill that was good all the time, then what good would it be to even have the other skill period? None, it would be broken.

Each skill is effective in different conditions, so it cannot be expected to win the argument of which is better. Spit seems better early on, while Ooze does well later into game. Hybrids do better in more situations, but lose the ability to anchor from high level ooze earlier, and the ability to spike damage earlier from venom.

Just remember, just because you can kill demigods better, doesnt mean you will be more inclined to win the game. In high level games, there are frequently 0 kills until teh endgame. Its nto because no one is good enough to kill someone, its just that the caliber of play is so high that very few people take risks, or make mistakes. And there are always trade offs. This is easiest to see in ooze versus vemon. Venom gives you damage, but takes away health items for mana. Ooze gives you anchoring, but you lose your early game advantage.

its all about the tradeoffs. Not everything is good all the time.

i agree (again) with Milskidasith. late game the hybrid-build is the strongest.

but the problem is to get so far. the passive skills are at early and midgame far too important. they seem minor but it you benefit more from them because you cannot really build spit + ooze together + foul grasp and have enough mana for the active skills until late game.

and if you dominate in early and midgame you allready have the advantage you need.

Without passives, you won't be killing anybody smart enough to run away.

I actually end up with more kills from spit than passives (comparing a pure ooze build to a spit/ooze build).  The combination of the extra DPS and range more than makes up for them, kill-potential-wise.  You sacrifice some tanking potential, of course.