if u want to continue your huge wall of posts  do it privately

The beauty is that they are going to add host banlists directly to the game. So this site, this conversations, and the OP are all irrelevent at this point.

 This thread has me rolling in laughter.  So many people crying about public banlists.

As a poster above said, there are two basic topics here:

1.  The value of a public banlist.

2.  Alban's attempt at a public banlist.

For #2, I think that's pretty much run full course.  No one will use it if it sucks, lacks integrity, etc.  If it doesn't, people will use it.  Simple as that.

For #1, I think there's a misconception with the function of a public banlist.  A public banlist is just that -- a list of bans that are publicly available.

This doesn't mean that any particular host has to use it.  TDA in DotA maintains a public banlist -- public in the sense that anyone can use it, even if they're not in TDA.  To get ON the TDA banlist, you need to be in TDA and violate the TDA rules.

ASG XML is another example of a DotA public banlist.  In contrast, however, ASG XML is not tied to a particular league, to my knowledge.  You can get on the public banlist by being a complete douchebag and/or violating "common sense" rules of DotA, pissing people off enough that they'll upload a replay to the site.

Personally, I have little respect for TDA over pubs, and I think their foreiture rules are asinine, so I don't use their banlist.  I use ASG XML's list because the ban reasons are fun to read.  Of course, I do not autokick ASG XML list alerts -- I only read them, paste them into chat, get a good laugh, and may or may not kick the player.

As someone who hosts games, banlists are GREAT.  Public banlists make things even easier and more entertaining.  I only autokick people on my personal banlist (which is over 8000 names in DotA, and counting -- would be over 20k if I didn't lose my personal banlist a few years ago).

Good times!

I love the OP's name. How is it pronounced...? "All-ban"? Hmm... coincidence?

And this is a terrible, terrible idea. You sir, are an idiot. Keep your retarded list to yourself, don't go around trying to make some global banlist, it is nothing but absolute fail. And it appears, that there is no transparancy involved with the lists either. You are already removing yourself from the list, what is up with that? So are you above the banlist or something asshole?

You remind me of that guy in your avatar, yes that one. You have no accountability for your own actions and even hide what you know is wrong, yet you have no problem telling others if they are right or not. I'm beginning to think you have some kind of Napoleon Complex. You must be a small, fragile, frail person in real life, with no sense of power and recieve no respect from others... so you try creating your own "little world" in your mind and on the internetz where you are king. Well, hate to break it to you sir, but you fail. You are not getting any respect on her either.

I hope someone hacks your site and spams it with gay porn.

Here I thought the point of a forum was discussion. Silly me, clearly the point is to throw one line posts around as if they give some magical insight. If you don't want to read it then don't.

Alban you have to understand although this game was inspired by DoTA, THIS IS NOT DOTA.

The community is different, banlist may never be needed. The problem still exists that does with it's use in DoTA, it's too easily exploited by petty people.

As to other people it doesn't speak very well of you if you can ONLY use insults.

Well since we've gotten to a point where we can agree that the general premise of a banlist is not a bad thing I can chop most of this. However I have a few points of contention.

You're never going to make them go away. I've come to terms with that. You can't change people unless they want to change themselves. So, there's no reason to even try. The only other option available is to keep them out of my game.

IMO leaving is a valid reason to ban. When you join my game I'm expecting you to play the game to its end. You don't get to leave when you die, you don't get to rage quit because someone kicked your ass. You stick it out to the point that it is unwinnable, which is much later than some people seem to think. I've come back from giants beating on my citadel with my citadel at 2000 hp. It's not going to be the norm by any stretch but it IS possible. I've won DotA games where the enemy had mega creeps 20 mins in. People have a tendency to throw in the towel at the first sign of any adversity. If you do that you will NEVER progress in skill. You have to push the limits to know where the limits are. Having a childish hissy fit and leaving is grounds for a ban.

I've seriously left 3 DotA games ever. Out of over 2000 games, 3. Those were all due to family emergencies outside of anyones control. If I got banned from them I honestly don't care since I had to go and there are plenty more fish in the sea as far as players go. Outside of those 3 games I've stuck it through to the bitter end, sometimes the very bitter end. If you don't have the time to play an entire game then don't play. Don't be a crybaby bitch and leave when you die. I've got no problem with you leaving if you're feeding so much you're a detriment to your team. But you'd damn well better ask your team and make it known that that's why your leaving. I've got no problem with people forfeiting a game, as long as everyone on their team agrees and it's actually hopeless at that point.

I also don't have a problem with you leaving if you're lagging the shit out of the game. If you're slowing everyone down and have the presence of mind to know this and that you leaving will make it stop then, again, let it be known and leave. These are all pretty common sense things. I don't think it's asking too much.

You can tell when things are disconnects or legit. If someone "disconnects" 2 seconds after they die, they're most likely plug pulling. Which is bullshit, see ya later. If you're lagging I don't want to play with you again and possibly be subject to another lagtastic game. I've met people in DotA that are torrenting while they play, what the fuck? Seriously turn that off and play or don't play and go watch some porn or something. Lagging in DG is annoying as hell, it's like playing a slideshow you wish would end. Lagging in DotA as you're most likely aware basically pauses the game while you catch up. I couldn't even begin to count the number of ganks were destroyed, or kills came solely because of lag in DotA. Game pauses, you can look at your minimap and screen and assess the situation in a way you couldn't before. Suddenly that KO punch is telegraphed and you can find your way out of an otherwise certain death.

Feeding doesn't always come with being a noob. Some people will join a game and throw their hero at the enemy with the sole purpose of dying over and over and over again. The only way to stop this is to Customkick and remove them from the game forcefully, which I'm more than happy to do. Some people will even mid game, take all their items and smash them, spending all their money before running in to feed so that once I've ejected them from the game their team gets zero benefit. That's what we call being a douche.

Teaching a new person to play DG, not that hard. To get the basics down it takes a few games, most of it is pretty common sense I'd say. Coming from DotA it's probably easier since you already know whats going on and most of the general ideas are the same. Teaching someone how to play DotA to any degree of usefullness can take weeks and months, depending on how good you're trying to get them. Now, I've got no problem teaching someone, however you must be willing to learn. If you are not than you're of no use. If you're new ASK QUESTIONS and TAKE ADVICE. If you're not willing to do that there seriously isn't anything that can be done with you. Also again, if you feel you're becoming a complete detriment to your team it might be best to take a bow.

Ugh, I grow tired of all this typing.

I do find it interesting that some people are anti-elitist yet they've got a very elitist attitude against DotA or the players of DotA. That's quite hypocritical.

Wow, i'm really surprised to see as many people against the list as there is.  I only read about half the replies but wanted to toss my $0.02 into the hat.

I play Dota. I use banlist. I don't deal with douchbags that ruin my (limited) amount of play time.  I am not someone authorized to make global bans. I have no desire to be.  I do have a personal banlist that runs about 250 accounts long.  I imagine that 3/10 games I host, my banlist alerts me to someone in the game that I've banned.

Why do i use banlist? Because, it allows me to avoid gaming with the kind of people who ruin the experience for me.  Reasons you'll end up on my banlist:

    Really long afks without asking/announcing (were talkin 8+ minutes, and it has a MAJOR effect on the game, especially if that afk is taken under certain conditions)

    Leaving- And I mean leaving, not d/c - usually immediately after you've been killed either the first time or multiple times in a row.  [Demigod really could benefit from a way to discern people who leave and people whose connection just gets lost before any sort of banlist pops up]

    Being a lame player - this manifests as you blatantly feeding the other time (and usually its after being told how to avoid getting owned and the player ignoring the advice) or harassing your own teamates in various ways (some heroes in dota can port their teamates to them, to town, etc)

How you'll see me use banlist:  I no longer join games, i always host because i'm usually playing with a couple of my buddies on vent; when i did join games though, if someone was on my list, i'd WHISPER the host and tag something like 'just letting you know' onto it; what they did with the info is their business.  When I host, if you are on my or my friends banlists (thank god war3banlist has integrated list sharing between accounts you specify) then the reason is posted to the lobbys chat and you're removed.

"ZOMG YOUR TERRIBLE! YOU R BANZ PEEPLZ!?"   Yes, and occasionally people get a second chance.  All my bans are created with the following format:

<Name> was banned on <date> for <reason> with a team ratio of <X vs Y> by Zorminster

This lets me know exactly why they were banned and how long ago it was.  If it was something like being a leaver and its been a few months or the team was something like 5v3* (*indicates they left from the team w/ 3) then sometimes ill givem another chance.  Lamers and people suspected of hacking dont get that chance.

Comments i've read and my reason I think theyre either innacurate or just wrong:    Also, unless i say so explicitly, im referencing personal banlists in the following bits- global bans are a very different beast and require lots more thought and care

Banlists dont do anything because of the ease for a person to create a new account or just join another game--- Exactly a reason [personal] banlists should be easily acceptable by the community.  If one person bans them it really only excludes them from games that one person hosts, or games that the host is willing to listen to heresay about someone.  As far as I'm aware, creating a new account for DG is more like creating an account for WoW as opposed to battle.net- it involves purchasing a new copy of the game. (if this is incorrect feel free to say so, i've not looked into it but it seems this would be the case with downloaded games)

Banlists divide the community - again, i dont think this is necessarily accurate.  I think it allows people seeking higher level play and more mature players to have that experience.  It doesnt break the community because those people are only excluding themselves from playing with someone who is banned.  In fact, i dare say that in some ways it quiets the community; lets think about a hypothetical situation:  

Situation 1)  Player X leaves a game with player Y after getting killed repeatedly.  Player Y has no banlist, so he gets on the forums and creates a thread flaming player X.  Lots of people read the thread and many reply flaming both player X for leaving and Y for being an  uptight dickwad.  Both players lose face and a (semi) permanent bit of slander is created.  

Situation 2) Player X leaves a game with player Y after getting killed repeatedly.  Player Y has banlist and bans player X. Both players move on with their lives.   

Situation 2a) Player X enters a game while on a banlist, the lobby is alerted and player X is kicked.  X finds a new game, everyone in the game he was kicked from finds the players and plays the game. No one remembers his name and no form of even semi-permanent slander is generated.

Banlist is a great idea; In fact I really support it.  I'd love to see a program very similar to war3banlist to come to DG.  Heres the way I would choose to build it if i had the coding ability, willpower, and you know... time.

Primarily it would be a personal banlist that used API hooking like war3BL to grab stuff you type and check it for command lines.  It would have integrated list sharing, but instead of having the option for loading up XML global banlists, i would make it account to account only.  That way, you really have to know someone (or of someone) who is well trusted and you believe their bans to be accurate and legitimate.

Imho, thats about the best way to alleviate fears of it becoming a grief tool as well as offering a more selective play experience that gives me the best possible experience.  Like it or leave it, everyones entitled to your opinion--- but someone WILL make a banlist program, its only a matter of time.

there is great value in a concice response

In my opinion, it was a joke before the person creating it finished coding the page. The concept of a community accessed and run Ban list is terrible and players should be directed away from it, rather than to it.

i dont play dota and i doubt i will  but from what i have heard the elitest seems to ruin it

It's not being an elitist. it's not wanting to play with kids who whine and cry and quit whenever they die or get punched in the face.

Is it just not wanting to play with them or not wanting to help them either?