I don't see why not.

Most people in the country have a work permit and work is all that is needed to make money to buy all those things.

No, he isn't.

I have known Draginol/Frogboy for years. He is a supporter of taxes and even a progressive income tax system. What he is upset about, and maybe that is difficult to understand, is that other people, mostly those who contribute nothing or very little to the country's welfare, keep pretending that they ought to have the right to define how much is "enough".

I can only recommend that anyone who knows how much is "enough" work as much as is necessary to make that amount and leave it up to other people to decide for themselves how much is "enough" for them.

Oh, c'mon, now--that's BS. No one in that bracket leaves themselves vulnerable without ferreting out every conceivable tax shelter.

3mil in taxable income would be closer to $10mil groaa. 

That's the problem... who should determine how much is enough. Should it be tax payers, should it be our representatives, should it be everyone of us individually? Current tax laws were put in place by people that were voted in by the general population. It's how the system works. If you want to change them, you elect someone who will. Does the system always work, no, but it's the best we got so far.

You know, both me and my husband were Army. We worked 24/7/265 for shit pay in order to do what we deemed necessary, help defend this country and it's rights, which are still unique in the world. Because we didn't make millions of dollars in income does that mean that we have no stake in the country and how it's run? My husband was injured on duty. He currently has a deterorating hip condition where his hip joint is literally eating itself away and has lost several inches of height because of this even though only one of his hips is affected. So in exchange for his military service he gets a progressive disability for the rest of his life and people acting like he's shit because he gets disability. And what does disability get us? Not enough to pay the bills. Not trying to whine, just trying to explain my story so you might better understand my point of view.

I am currently job hunting because the person I was working with decided two weeks ago to just not talk to us anymore and that's about the extent of it. I was working part time with him via computer which is why we still have internet access. I have military training which doesn't count for crap half the time because you don't actually get a certificate unless you pay the University of Maryland to get it for you. I have a partial degree in Accounting which I had to stop due to the fact that we couldn't afford gas to make it to and from the college in order to get my degree.

I'm sorry if I can't feel like someone who makes two million dollars after taxes a year is being cheated by the government because of the amount of taxes that he had to pay when my family has to work their butt off in order to get less than two thousand a month. I am more than willing to put my skills to use, just show me someone who will hire me and there we go. I haven't gotten that chance to make my millions, when I do I will jump all over it and will be more than happy to give the government what I can in order to help others who make less than I do.

I am an educated person who just doesn't have the slip of paper to make it official. My husband gets some payment for injuries that he got because of military service, but because we make that we don't qualify for help in other ways. Unfortunately it seems like we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. If the government wanted to set a flat tax rate and take a percentage of what we make fine with us, but if you make three million dollars you had better be prepared to pay your share evenly without the thought of tax breaks as well. I'm willing to bet though that he got out of paying more tax than we made last year in total.

But if each person decides only for themselves then we might have a problem. Let's say that we have people who decide they owe the government nothing, which I'm sure you can agree there's more than one person in this country who would decide that, and the government doesn't end up with enough money to support our defences for example. What kind of country would we be without a military that is equipped to handle what other countries would throw at us? Would we still have a country? I guess there would be no reason for us to argue this point then, now would there.

Actually, I haven't changed the subject at all. If we want the country to work then "ENOUGH" must be what ends up making the ends meet. That's why we elect representatives who get together and help make up the laws that determine how much is "ENOUGH" for each of us to pay. It's the logical thing to do, isn't it? I mean that's one of the reasons why we have elections for House and Senate representatives, to decide what needs to be done with all factors considered. If you don't like the outcome then elect someone who will vote for the outcome you do want, that's how the system works.

So you are calling him a liar? Do you really think there are magical "tax holes" for rich people? rich people pay the most taxes. TV is not an accurate source of information, and draginol and his tax firm can not find those magical tax holes you proclaim to exist.

Therein lies the problem. Once the representative is elected, his/her salary becomes far larger than the majority of their constituents (not to mention the perks). Since their future wealth is loosely tied to what the government brings in. It is in their interest for plenty of money coming in, as it is much easier to justify bigger raises (but they will take them regardlessly). Also, if the current batch cabinet appointees are any indicator, seem like a lot of these folks don't pay all their owed taxes until they get caught as they move up the chain. The percentage must be high if the latest small sampling is an indicator.

Everyones worried about the what the rich pay, but nobody wants to address the fact that if you want more money, why not work harder and earn it. Why take your own limitations out on someone else. Why do we lie to our children and tell them study hard and do well so they will get a good job and be successful. According to the current administrations philosophy, we should tell the kids, let someone else study hard, and it will be their responsibility to take care of you. Everyone gets an "A", all athletes get gold medals, a true celebration of mediocrity. Everyone gets the same, regardless of the effort put forth. 

Well, he asked. Please tell him of those loopholes.

Are you an accountant, mommie4life?

I don't mean to offend anyone here but the whole "rich people don't pay much in taxes because of the loopholes" is the fairly typical ignorant claptrap one can expect to hear at the family Thanksgiving dinner from the uncle or aunt whose day job is working at the mill or driving a truck or some other job that has nothing to do with managing large sums of income.

Unless there is someone else in this thread who's making $3M+ in income, I would think a little bit of modesty might go a long way before someone starts saying I have "lousy" tax accountants (I mentioned that I use a big 8 firm for my taxes). 

There are certainly means to reduce ones tax liabilities in terms of payroll taxes and the like. But in terms of actually reducing ones real tax liability, it's very difficult to legally do this and make substantial (as in a significant %) differences in taxes being paid.

I certainly don't mind paying for roads, schools, police. That's where my property taxes and the 4% that goes to the state largely goes to. 

The federal governmnent, however, is taking 35% of the income over $357,000 (Which means, most of it).  And what are they doing with it? Mostly, it gets paid directly to other people for all manners of social programs.

And do those people appreciate this free boon? No. Instead, they sit around rationalizing the money they received by saying that "the rich" don't "need" that money or that "the rich" have loopholes from paying their fair share or that they are merely getting back what they "paid into the system" (when in reality the tiny amunt in net taxes they paid wouldn't cover a fraction of what they're getting back) whatever and thus vote for politicians who promise to give them even more free money taken forcibly from other people.

People have an immense capacity for rationalizing the unpaid use of someone else's labor. I see this in software piracy threads all the time where it's even more clear cut than the modern welfare state. So it's not surprising to see serious people trying to honestly justify the wholesale theft of other people's labors in order to pay for "essential" government programs that largely amount to other people getting free money.

Tiring for the perp's maybe, Doesn't wear me out bringing it up. Of course if you support that kind of thing, I can see you like liking someone speaking harshly of your nanny.

Richard it only good sense to know who your host on this site is, of course you may know him as Draginol of Stardock fame. Member # can be a good indicator.

The Onion rules.