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Vernon Harris
Vernon Harris
Join Date 03/2007
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Too much Entrenchment

December 28, 2008 1:57:49 PM from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

I have been playing the Entrenchment beta for Sins of a Solar Empire. I waspleased to discover that the add-on changes gameplay very radically in a positive and challenging manner. However, I must add a caveat, the mine field feature is so powerful, that it threatens to unbalance the game. It is exceedingly easy to place mines around a planet thus making it very difficult to both cspture and develop an enemy planet even after destroying all opposing mobile forces. I am aware that the name of the game is 'entrenchment' and that this is possibly a design feature, but every weapon should have a counter weapon, this is also a valid design principle. May I suggest that the designers should consider adding Minesweepers as a new class of ship?

 

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Vernon Harris
gameripper
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #1 December 28, 2008 6:33:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Dunov Classes can Detect/ Remove Mines? Capital Ships with counter upgrades?

 

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Vernon Harris
Shaky010
Join Date 12/2007
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Reply #2 December 28, 2008 6:40:39 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

why not have the scout ship do it.  Seeing as they want to include scout ships to see the mines then they should also have the ability to remove the mines.

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Vernon Harris
Dargoon999
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #3 December 28, 2008 6:47:43 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Like Shady010 said, why not give the scout ships the ability to detect, target & destroy mines with 2 or 3 hits. That way the scout ships will play a larger role in the fleet. The scout should also view mines as a priority target.

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Vernon Harris
PoppaWedge
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #4 December 28, 2008 7:01:19 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'd like to offer two alternatives for this:

  1. Scouts have an auto "seek and destroy" feature which would function like the auto-explore option. Keep seeking for mines, and when found, destroy them.
  2. The ability to ID and "paint" a minefield, perhaps planting a beacon of some sort in the minefield/on the mines so that other ships can see them once the scout ship leaves the grav well.
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Vernon Harris
Dargoon999
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #5 December 28, 2008 7:19:08 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Those are relly good answers. Keep it up PoppaWedge.

 

Really hoping Devs are reading this!!!

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Vernon Harris
Vernon Harris
Join Date 03/2007
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Reply #6 December 28, 2008 8:05:31 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

Way to go Poppa Wedge. You and Dargoon999 have come up with some innovative and allied ideas. However, your suggestions involve turning the Scout ship into a quasi minesweeper. I agree that this would make the scout ship a more valuable asset, but I do wonder if it would result in mission overload for this ship class. Further, to balance such an increase in versatility, the cost of the Scout ship class would need to be considerably increased to reflect its enhanced strategic/tactical importance.

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Vernon Harris
Dargoon999
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #7 December 28, 2008 8:17:31 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Like you said Vernon Harris, the price of the scout ship could be increased or this new ability could be researched three times.

Level 1: give the scout this new ability,

Level 2: increases the detection range

Level 3: increases the damage done to mines (for example passing from 5 shots to 3)

 

if anyone has any other idea, please post them!

 

DEVS anyone?????

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Vernon Harris
zolop
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #8 December 28, 2008 8:32:26 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

These are good discussions, very positive.  The Devs  will respond they are probably just really busy.  The only alternative I can offer is make a new ship model for all the races that do this.  But I believe the ideas suggested prior are really good and innovative.

Like any Dev or moderator, they do read the suggestions, its just that they might not have enough time now to respond since, they are so very close to its release.

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Vernon Harris
zolop
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #9 December 28, 2008 8:36:43 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting gameripper,
reply 1
Dunov Classes can Detect/ Remove Mines? Capital Ships with counter upgrades?

 

 

While I agree with most of the ideas suggested, this would make the mines more useless if captital ships had a way to detect and destroy them.  This would allow the player to make a LESS balenced fleet, destroying the gameplay factors of this game.

Maybe make a Frigate like you suggested, it is a good idea.

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Vernon Harris
Shaky010
Join Date 12/2007
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Reply #10 December 28, 2008 10:20:21 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Personally it would make the scount a more essential ship to have in the fleet and keep the balance in the game.

1. Research the ability to detect and destroy mines.

2. Second research on ability to detect and paint a cluster of mines for the fleet to destroy.

Also what about this idea for starbases

Maybe having the starbase emit a jump nullifier and tractor for an area of 270 degrees of the grav well.  The area is provided when you make the starbase so you need to pay attention a little.  That way a fleet still has the option of jumping out of the system back the way it came but cant go around the station as they will get drawn towards it and its weapon range.  Its just a thought but it might solve the problem a little.


Please however argue the point if you dont think it would work.

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Vernon Harris
gameripper
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #11 December 29, 2008 2:00:52 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

A ship would make sense as I often lure my enemies into my mine fields and it would make the game interseting if I had a target minesweeper to destroy to ensure the plans success.

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Vernon Harris
nagersea
Join Date 08/2008
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Reply #12 December 30, 2008 1:16:45 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

Agreed, for the time being, however, use your scout ship and a carrier/light carrier to handle it.  It's time consuming and annoying, but that's the best way I've found to clear mines.  I had to do it as a result of a Vasari invastion that left my home planet covered in mines

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Vernon Harris
asciismoke@gmail.com
Join Date 03/2007
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Reply #13 December 30, 2008 8:57:13 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

AAAAAGGHHH!!!!

I love almost all of the additions in Entrnechment but:

I've just spent 4 hours playing a co-op game with a friend where we hit a stalemate with the enemy. We had no way of pushing forward because the AI enemy would just jump into a system drop a thousand mines then flee. The only way to remove the mines is to fly cap ships into them and wait for their shields to restore. But before the shields have restored there are more mines to clear!!!!!

Please fix this asap! we just need a way of clearing them, the scout idea is exactly what me and my friend assumed would be in place anyway.

RTS 101 - every tactic must have a counter!

It's now 2am and I'm going to bed completely unsatiated for my strategy fix. Ah-well, back to SupCom.

AsciiSmoke

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Vernon Harris
MrQuiet
Join Date 11/2007
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Reply #14 December 30, 2008 9:05:37 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I agree, the scout ship would make an ideal candidate for clearing mines. 

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Vernon Harris
Soland
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #15 December 30, 2008 9:18:32 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

I've not played the beta yet as I cannot pre-order due to the token link being broken...  After reading a few of the posts here though I would suggest (as a passing thought) put in a few research items:  One to allow scouts to sensor link with the fleet, one to recalibrate flak frigates to target and destroy mines, and a possible third to upgrade flak frigates to a higher rate of fire so they can more easily fullfill their new double duty.(I would limit the increase in fire rate or possibly just add a mine damaging only gun to the three arcs)

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Vernon Harris
PurplePaladin
Join Date 02/2008
+35
Reply #16 December 30, 2008 9:45:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Agreed, use Scouts or Flak ships to sweep; but slow the fleet WAY down when doing so; just like in real life, you can slowly/safely walk through a mine field, or run through and take your chances (and lumps).

 

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Vernon Harris
rattrap47
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #17 December 30, 2008 11:42:03 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

I was thinking the Siege Frigates would also be a good candidate for mine sweeping.  An additional item in the tech tree, maybe a branch off the siege frigate to research ?

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Vernon Harris
StuwyDotP
Join Date 06/2008
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Reply #18 December 31, 2008 1:09:10 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting PurplePaladin,
reply 16
Agreed, use Scouts or Flak ships to sweep; but slow the fleet WAY down when doing so; just like in real life, you can slowly/safely walk through a mine field, or run through and take your chances (and lumps).

 

I agree, the flak frigate would seem to make sense from a literal perspective.

kind of carpet bombing space with flak should set off a mine...

 

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Vernon Harris
Vernon Harris
Join Date 03/2007
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Reply #19 December 31, 2008 10:06:44 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

An excellent and elegant solution Soland. Flak guns and Point Defences are very similar weapons. It is noteworthy that in other strategy games, Space Empire V and Sword of the Stars for example, Point Defences are used to interdict missiles, fighters, and mines.

I am pleased indeed with the imaginative and thoughtful responses to my original post. Together we have given Stardock and Ironclad very pertinent food for thought on which to ponder. It may be too late to influence the impending release of Entrenchment at this stage, but I have every confidence that the information contained in these posts will influence future iterations of Entrenchment and perhaps even future planned add-ons.

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Vernon Harris
mishya
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #20 December 31, 2008 10:17:04 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting AsciiSmoke,
reply 13
I've just spent 4 hours playing a co-op game with a friend where we hit a stalemate with the enemy. We had no way of pushing forward because the AI enemy would just jump into a system drop a thousand mines then flee. The only way to remove the mines is to fly cap ships into them and wait for their shields to restore. But before the shields have restored there are more mines to clear!!!!!

Just build a single scout ship (or two or three) and fly them towards a cluster of mines.. not onto a mine but near them.. and have your ships follow them at a distance, they'll reveal the mines and your ships will start blasting pockets of them away. It's still annoying and takes a bit of micro but way better than just bodily smashing capitals into them. I had a fleet of 7 Illuminators or so and 3 scout ships that I used for that purpose and it was very effective for me.

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Vernon Harris
asciismoke@gmail.com
Join Date 03/2007
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Reply #21 December 31, 2008 10:58:10 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thanks for the help Mishya, we'll give that a go.

Ascii

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