Are you sure? From what I remember Impulse wasn't out for another 4-6 months after SOASE was released. While you're still mentioning about second hand games though, you still fail to acknowledge those that bought the game legitimately and have been persecuted since the induction of Impulse. It's highly unfair, especially that patches were initially released separately.

And yes, Impulse was still in beta when Sins launched so they went with a more traditional patch so the users would not be negatively affected. (They really put the customer first.)

I have now read all previous posts... whew! hehe

Now for some logic:

Some of you have said companies are being "harmed" by secondary sales of games, but they aren't.

Here's the two examples.

1: "Person A" buys game, the money going to the maker, and keeps it forever getting all the patches and online play he can.

2. "Person A" buys game, the money going to the maker, and sells it removing it from his PC and never playing it again. Then "Person B" buys it and keeps it forever getting all the patches and online play he can.

In both cases the maker of the game HAS RECIEVED PAYMENT for the game and is putting out patches to please their supporters (I suspect pride in a job well done even if it takes a few tweaks plays a big part in why patches are released despite no extra money being made.) and for as long as they choose supporting multiplayer/online components also. The maker is not harmed by the second example in any way because they have been payed. This is in no way the same as piracy. The secondary person deserves the patches as much as the first person because that particular cd/game has been payed for and should be able to have all the patches released to make the game the final "just right" version.

However, not allowing "Person B" to get the patches DOES hurt him. How you ask? Patches aren't so much a free goody for the users, they are a way for the makers to put on the final little touches/tweaks they couldn't do without player input. (Is the porridge too cold? OK I'll heat it up. Too hot? I'll cool it back a bit. Just right? YAY!) As I said before, a point of pride artists. Not to mention the respect and loyalty it brings.

The only way the company would be hurt is if "Person A" decided to continue playing the game and several people were using the exact same copy of the game A.K.A. piracy. This applies to online play especially (but not exclusively, don't be confused by my statement.) where basically every company has some "same CD key in use" script in use.

I had to spend ALL DAY downloading the 225MB patch on my 56k dial-up, (it's all I can afford) which is why I keep all patches for games on a CD in case they get messed up by a new patch/mod. If I need to re-install a game to an earlier/working patch I can do it as quick as my comp can work. I'm just glad this thing has download resuming.

I'm really suprised NO ONE else brought this up when talking about this: What happens when a storm hits and the power goes out or some other scenario where the servers are unaccessible? (like time going by, it's fantasy to think the data will be there forever.) I refuse to buy valve games because of this kind of thing and from the talk about Spore I'm glad I didn't get that game. If I had known the patches were going to be like this I defintely wouldn't have bought it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm loving every second of the game and will buy the "mini-expansion" coming out next month but... They did this in the name of not losing sales to piracy, ironicly they'll be losing sales from me for future games because of it. I'll look at the icons of who makes/distributes it and pass by as if they mean "defective".

A moderator said this way of doing patches was why Sins is $10 less than other games, but the real reason is the game is gameplay only, having only a backdrop, but not a story/campaign. That's the reason I see for it being less money, and being less money is the only reason I picked a game with no campaign (but great reviews) over C&C 3 or C&C: RA 3.

I've also seen the End User License Agreement brought up. EULA's are BS. Just because something is LEGAL does NOT mean it is RIGHT. Same thing goes for traditional etc. etc. I could bring up half a dozen example society agrees on today and another dozen more controversial ones, but you all know what I mean by this. There should be a warning on the box. Some say hard copies of games are going to be a thing of the past in favor of the internet like newspapers, but I get one on my driveway everyday and when I have no right to something I payed for I'll get my entertainment elswhere.

To sum up my post:

1.Please make .exe versions of patches for offline use/storage. If not hopefully a nice hacker will make an offline patcher that works the way they did for NWN2.

2. I look forward to buying similar top quality games from you if you change this sort of thing. A full SoaSE expansion with a story/campaign might entice me even if not, but I'll check forums to see it hasn't gotten worse and believe all the bad stuff.

3(PS). There's no need for name calling, it shows emotions have tainted the purity of logic. Emotions are either your tool or you are theirs, be mindfull which is which.

If any creators or anyone in charge of this kind of thing are reading this thank you for taking the time.

again, how would this be diffrent if the patches was hosted by filefront or the like?

and it does not have to be an IE caffe, she has atleast 1 friend with internet acces ... you ... or work or school or... IE acces is rather abundent and easy to come by for most.

And even if it is not the case for her, it's the same as the linux comp, the segment of potential buyers without IE acces is so low by now that it does not seem good buiss to cater to them anymore (it's a harsh world where companies need to make a profit)

Wow, nice discussion here.

That is one of the few times where im glad to live in germany. Here we have some laws which for example declare all EULA as ineffective, since you cannot see them before you buy the software, so they will not in any form affect the contract. You are even completely allowed to resale your lisence of software.

Software you downloaded via the internet, like Steam or Impulse-Software, is a different matter since you will see the EULA before you finish your purchase (one of the reasons SINS ist the first and the last game i bought via Impulse/Steam)

I can absolutely understand the rants about the impossibility to sale this game. And i cannot understand the way you argue about the licensesales and support for the game. Stadock sold a license for the game. With this license came some support. This support ist hooked to the license not to the buyer person. So if the initial Buyer sold the license he looses every right to use support. And the new owner can use the support. Stardock was already payed for this support.

@Craig Fraser

As long as Software comes with errors i absolutely demand free patches. Updates with new content for the game are an entirely different matter of course. And if you have an option to restrict patches to paying customers i am absolutely on your side if you use this options. But you should give an option to resale the game if it does not enjoy you.

there are NO errors in ver 1.00 let alone 1.05, your agument fails

@Zubaz

Most of the demos i played so far were castrated BS, and they didn´t say much about the real game. (Or even the real hardwarespecs) To be honest i stopped using demos some years ago, maybe this has changed today.

@Kruppe

Where does my argument fail? As long as Software comes with errors i absolutely demand free patches PERIOD. Thats a general statement. If a software ist absolutely errorfree with version 1.0 there is no need for a patch. So whats your point? And if there was nothing to correct in 1.0, why do we have now a 1.12? And why are there corrected bugs in the changelog?

 One of the biggest advantege of Impulse is I don't have to worry about losing my disc. Recently I had my home broken into and had 12 PS3 games (as well as the PS3) stolen. This isn't a problem with Impulse.

Here's the evidence. I asked and pointed out a number of issues - your reluctance to give specific details, I ask you again, how much you paid, where you bought it from, etc, (which you still don't answer) and instead, you only reply two lines. You ignored all my arguments and points - most likely because you can't or won't / do not dare to answer them... All you can say is "I forgot" - what a joke - something as this to cause you to kick up such a big fuss and you forgot all the pertinent details? You sure sound like a troll. Here's more questions for you - are you serious about solving this problem or just mucking around?

How much did you pay for it?

What is the name of the store you bought it from?

What is the store's official return policy? One week? Two weeks? Opened/Unopened?

How was the second hand item packaged by the store? Was it re-shrink wrapped? Was it an unsealed box?

How did the store assure you that the box they sold you was not missing any items? eg. Was the Keyboard quick ref fold out included? If this was a CE, did you get the Music CD as well?

Did the store give you a refund of cash or credit on future purchase? Or did they put it back to your card if you paid by card?

If you have no real answers to these simple questions - then how are people supposed to figure out how to make sure such issues don't happen again in the future? If Serials were allowed to be transfered one day, then some guy will come in here and complain that their second hand box of Sins was missing the keyboard quick ref and demand SD/IC provide it.. Where will the madness end?

Just to clarify, the issue here is not free patches - if you are the registered licensee of SOASE, you do get free patches via Impulse. Epiclulz was demanding that such priviledge be granted to those who bought a 2nd hand copy as well.

First of all, I didn`t read all the prvious post`s.  From what I can gather though, This is beating a dead horse.  This will not change, Accept it.  Or buy a PS3.