Dev Question concerning the AI » Forum Post by Volrath the Fallen

The AI in GalCiv seems quite capable of handling user created techs in mods. There, each tech has hidden values (that influence how strongly an AI favour this tech, wants to trade it...) and the rest is analysed at runtime, if I'm not mistaken.

And since Stardock has probably learnt a lot about AI coding during GalCiv, I expect the Elemental AI to be top-notch as well.

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Not to sound like a fanboy here, but Frogboy's AI work is the best I have ever seen in a game. He is rather skilled at it to say the least.

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Not to sound like a fanboy here, but Frogboy's AI work is the best I have ever seen in a game. He is rather skilled at it to say the least.

Lol, fanboy. Thats alright I'm a fanboy too then!

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The AI in GalCiv seems quite capable of handling user created techs in mods. There, each tech has hidden values (that influence how strongly an AI favour this tech, wants to trade it...) and the rest is analysed at runtime, if I'm not mistaken.

I'd have to agree. The integration of mods in GalCiv, since the mods are created within the scope and coding of the game itself, works pretty flawlessly.

Since a key point of this game is the user generated content I would assume Stardock is going to work its butt off to get it to work. That's one of the reasons for a long beta.

But we're not devs, so you can probably just ignore us.

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Quoting ,

quoting post

User generated content seems to be a key element of this game, but will the AI actually be able to make real use of the new content on its own or has the AI to be modified for each new content?

I would appreciate if a Dev could elaborate a bit on this matter, even at this early stage.

Well, in all new strategy games AI can handle number tweaks relatively ok. I don't know if devs will make it so it will be possible to add a completely new features (like in Civ4), but if it will be possible then you'll need to change the AI as well. So, i guess you should specify what exactly do you mean when you say "new content". I guess a new unit should be ok but a new unit with teleport ability will not teleport if there is no teleport ability in the original game - there will be no AI code for teleport ability.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2415

The AI will automatically make use of user generated tech.

+1

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Thanks a lot for the answer Frogboy and Followers.

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Solam

Join Date 03/2007

+16

God I just love it when we have a good question like this and Management takes the time to answer us. It's way cool!

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A further question in relation to this topic is, will we have access to modify the AI and add in new functionality (ala Civ4 AI SDK)?

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Quoting Dale_,

reply 9

A further question in relation to this topic is, will we have access to modify the AI and add in new functionality (ala Civ4 AI SDK)?

Probably not (though I'm in no position to answer that) since Elemental will probably not use scripted AIs like CivIV but an AI similar to the one in GalCiv2 which couldn't be changed by modders either.

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Civ4's SDK also includes the C++ source code for the game DLL file. You're probably only thinking of the python scripting. But with the full SDK you can do anything to the actual game code itself. The only thing you don't really have access to is the graphics and network engines.

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Quoting Dale_,

reply 11

Civ4's SDK also includes the C++ source code for the game DLL file. You're probably only thinking of the python scripting. But with the full SDK you can do anything to the actual game code itself. The only thing you don't really have access to is the graphics and network engines.

Good to see you onboard this game also Dale.. should be interesting to mod eh?

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Quoting Spartan,

reply 2

Not to sound like a fanboy here, but Frogboy's AI work is the best I have ever seen in a game. He is rather skilled at it to say the least.

I think Civilization 4:Warlords AI is better than GalCiv one. In a Warlords expansion they included a BetterAI mod http://sourceforge.net/projects/civ4betterai/ in an official game so AI become much better.

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psychoak

Join Date 07/2007

+225

Um... no. Niether of them are competent tacticians, Civ4 has an advantage in the system being more forgiving of mistakes, but the GC2 AI is vastly superior in management aspects. Civ4 basically masses units and throws walls of them at you. I can beat noble difficulty till hell freezes over. I have trouble with challenging in GC2 on larger maps.

I can play much larger games in GC2 before my system is taxed as well. It's the one thing that kills Civ4 for me, the unforgivably clunky AI. I'd love to play eighteen player huge terra maps, but it's too fucking boring waiting two minutes between turns for the AI to think.

Edit: I just realized you were comparing GC1. Maybe... I seem to remember getting my ass handed to me there as well.

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Quoting psychoak,

reply 14

Um... no. Niether of them are competent tacticians, Civ4 has an advantage in the system being more forgiving of mistakes, but the GC2 AI is vastly superior in management aspects. Civ4 basically masses units and throws walls of them at you. I can beat noble difficulty till hell freezes over. I have trouble with challenging in GC2 on larger maps.

I don't think that GC2 AI is "vastly superior" in management. First, GC2 hides information from players so it's much harder to make decisions what is efficient and what isn't. Since AI knows all hidden information and players don't have any manuals or in-game help that explains how GC2 economics works, GC2 AI seems to be more efficient than most players who don't want to waste time re-creating information that should be in the manuals or in-game help/tooltips. Obviously, it's not the AI efficiency, it's just another way of cheating.

Well, Civ4 AI isn't a competent tactician because it shouldn't be a competent tactitian to play a singleplayer match. It creates a stack of units and attacks a chosen target, sometimes it pillages land. Tactician skills are required in an "always war" Civ4 MP matches, but most players who play singleplayer hate that kind of gameplay anyway. They prefer empire-building and big decisive wars, and Civ4 AI is good enough in that aspect.

I don't understand what do you mean by "Civ4 has an advantage in the system being more forgiving of mistakes". May you specify it?

Quoting psychoak,

reply 14

Edit: I just realized you were comparing GC1. Maybe... I seem to remember getting my ass handed to me there as well.

Well, i was able to win in both GC1 and Civ4: Warlords on highest difficulty. I'm not sure if GC2:Twilight of Arnor AI is any better overall, but it makes undefended resource starbases on my territory when we're at war. At least Civ4 AI doesn't send their workers to the enemy territory...

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psychoak

Join Date 07/2007

+225

I don't understand what do you mean by "Civ4 has an advantage in the system being more forgiving of mistakes". May you specify it?

In Civ, damaged units drop behind full health units. In GC, they don't. Your toughest unit defends till death. The dogpile aspect guarantees casualties against vastly superior armies. The range factors are very different as well. It's routine to attack outside of someones view in GC, not in Civ. You can see everything inside your borders and a couple tiles out, and only with railroads does movement get fast enough to strike deep.

The game is harder, it's designed with fewer handicaps to take advantage of. The Civ AI doesn't really do anything better, it's just set up for less tactical decisions. Even the oh so annoying suicidal constructor is just something the AI in Civ can't duplicate. They send workers out to borders to be picked off during war, all you have to do is sit cavalry outside their view after razing an improvement. If they could utilize resources outside their borders, they'd probably do the same thing.

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