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Pope: "I said no such thing about Kerry!!"

Excommunication of the Kerry one

October 19, 2004 12:52:13 AM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I was laughing my arse off.

Check it out and weep or laugh: Link

Hmm, looks like somebody will not be a Roman Catholic anymore by suffering the worse penalty one can suffer EXCOMMUNICATION.

Sorry for the short post but I can't think of anything else to type on the subject.

UPDATE: Vatican denies it responded to lawyer seeking Kerry's excommunication [LINK]

LATER!
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Grim Xiozan
historyishere
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Reply #1 October 19, 2004 1:11:35 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
You know, it might just be me... but I didn't really hear about all those priests that molested children getting excommunicated.... I could be wrong about that, but honestly, if they haven't, well I think the Vatican has to re-examine its priorities...
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Reply #2 October 19, 2004 1:13:52 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
I don't know either I just thought the excommunication of Kerry is hilarious.
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Reply #3 October 19, 2004 1:25:25 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
I don't think this will stop Kerry from saying over and over again that he was an alter boy 40 years ago. Which he has been using to try and make himself sound like he is a deeply religious man. Get real man, he has not stepped foot into a Church for anything other then a photos op. since then (that includes his wedding).

That's My Two Cents
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Reply #4 October 19, 2004 1:49:01 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
try and make himself sound like he is a deeply religious man. Get real man, he has not stepped foot into a Church for anything other then a photos op.


sounds like something both candidates do.
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Reply #5 October 19, 2004 1:56:52 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
In what way is Bush unfaithful to his religion? I've always heard the opposite about him: that he's too religious.
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joetheblow
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Reply #6 October 19, 2004 3:18:48 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I need a beer... and I don't even drink beer.
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T_Bone4Justice
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Reply #7 October 19, 2004 4:57:14 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
"You know, it might just be me... but I didn't really hear about all those priests that molested children getting excommunicated.... I could be wrong about that, but honestly, if they haven't, well I think the Vatican has to re-examine its priorities..."

Excellent point...and instead of the Vatican acting quickly and coming down just as hard on those priests....they actually tried to ignore it and cover it up for YEARS. Their complicity in this tragedy is well documented and it shows a level of hypocracy that is beyond the pale. The fact that the Pope has decided to overtly try and use catholic churches in the U.S. to swing public opinion one way or the other in this presidential election is not a laughing matter. It reinforces the notion that we need a very strong boundary between church and state. I don't want the Vatican, some Mullah, or any other powerful and I might add "foreign" religous leader trying to influence the outcome of our elections.
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dabe
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Reply #8 October 19, 2004 6:26:06 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
"I don't want the Vatican, some Mullah, or any other powerful and I might add "foreign" religous leader trying to influence the outcome of our elections. "

T Bones, I can't agree with you more. But, I'd like to add one thing. I don't want ANY religious leader, foreign or American, trying to influence the oucome of our elections. Once you start making religious decisions about our leaders, the separation of church and state gets narrower and narrower. I don't want, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc. infusing religion into the electoral process. Now, that's not to say that religious leaders are not allowed to have opinions. As long as they keep religious doctrine out of it.
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dabe
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Reply #9 October 19, 2004 6:40:02 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
From what I've heard, Kerry is , in fact, very deeply religious and spiritual. He just doesn't find the need to wave religion in people's faces, the way Bush does. Kerry's concept of his religiousness is very personal.

Personally, I don't give a rat's ass if he goes to church or not. That's not what religion is about. That's not what spirituality is about. I believe that religion/spirituality are an inner sense of God. It's not about waving dogma in others' faces. It's not about waging wars. More wars have been fought in the name of religion, and the war in Iraq is no different. Problem is, Bush and his neocon "religious" nitwits started it. How utterly unreligious can one get. The fact that Islamist fundamentals are perpetuating it isn't the point. though they are as scummy, if not worse than other religious nutcases. For this reason alone, Bush and his ilk should all be excommunicated. I guess advocating a woman's right to choose is unacceptable to the pope, because it arguably results in the death of a human being. What does that say about waging war? I just don't see the logic here..........
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Reply #10 October 19, 2004 7:25:16 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
the thing is....John Kerry is a catholic....he has stated so in so many answers to so many questions....As a catholic, he has submitted himself to the authority of the head of the Catholic Church.

Do I want the pope determining who is president of our country? no....I am not even catholic....but if John Kerry is going to continue to use the phrase, "I am Catholic" in answers to issues such as abortions, stem cell research, what side of the bed he wakes up on, ect ect ect.....then he needs to face the issues of his stands going against the religious institution that he is a part of.

This makes me think of his "War Hero" stand about the Vietnam war.....he is a war hero....but God forbid ANYONE questioning that.....
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Dr Guy
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Reply #11 October 19, 2004 8:49:43 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Sorry Grim, it is a hoax. That site is in no way connected to the Catholic Church, and actually the Catholic Church wished it would go away.

As I have stated before, the church cant excommunicate you, you can only ex-communicate yourself.

And mythical, get a grip! The pope is the final authority on all things spiritual! Not fiscal or physical. Fearing the Pope would pull the political strings of any catholic shows not only a decided lack of sognitive ability, but also ignorance of the current facts. I would have thought that Kennedy laid those bigotted thoughts to rest 40 years ago, but now I see I am wrong.
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drmiler
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Reply #12 October 19, 2004 10:03:11 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Reply #11 By: Dr. Guy - 10/19/2004 8:49:43 AM
Sorry Grim, it is a hoax. That site is in no way connected to the Catholic Church, and actually the Catholic Church wished it would go away.

As I have stated before, the church cant excommunicate you, you can only ex-communicate yourself.


While the site may be a hoax the fact still remains that the church CAN excommunicate you! I know this for fact. That is unless you want to tell my brother-in-law that he has not been excommunicated and that the letter he recieved stating so was false!
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Myrrander
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Reply #13 October 19, 2004 10:17:36 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
well, since the pope really hasn't mattered in about 500 years, I think we'll be ok
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Reply #14 October 19, 2004 10:20:12 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #13 By: Myrrander - 10/19/2004 10:17:36 AM
well, since the pope really hasn't mattered in about 500 years, I think we'll be ok


Well, that's your outlook. Although I think you'll find a difference of opinion if you ask a practicing catholic the same question.
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Reply #15 October 19, 2004 10:25:38 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
"if John Kerry is going to continue to use the phrase, "I am Catholic" in answers to issues such as abortions, stem cell research, what side of the bed he wakes up on, ect ect ect.....then he needs to face the issues of his stands going against the religious institution that he is a part of. "

Kerry's whole point is that you can be Catholic, you can be religious, and you can even be President, but as President you should not impose your personal religious beliefs on those who do not share your faith, your religion, or your religous doctrines. If the Vatican wants to excommunicate him for that then it just underscores the fact that the Catholic Church is trying to exert influence where it has no business exerting its influence, namely, our presidential elections.
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Reply #16 October 19, 2004 10:29:23 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Popes haven't been interesting since Rodrigo Borgia -- now THERE was a guy worth talking about.
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Reply #17 October 19, 2004 10:36:12 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
dabe, I agree with your point as well. I don't like it when religion and politics are in bed together whether it be foreign or domestic. I was just underscoring a point that the Vatican and the Pope are foreign entities that have no place in trying to influence the outcome of our elections. Especially when you have some Catholic bishops running around telling people it is a "sin" to vote for Kerry. Not only is this tactic disgusting...it may actually have violated election laws thereby jeaprodizing the Catholic Church's "tax free" status for overtly supporting and/or overtly being against a particular political candidate. We have laws regarding religious institutions and their participation in politics....I would be interested to see if anyone calls them on it.
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Reply #18 October 19, 2004 11:04:18 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Reply #18 By: T_Bone4Justice - 10/19/2004 10:36:12 AM
dabe, I agree with your point as well. I don't like it when religion and politics are in bed together whether it be foreign or domestic. I was just underscoring a point that the Vatican and the Pope are foreign entities that have no place in trying to influence the outcome of our elections. Especially when you have some Catholic bishops running around telling people it is a "sin" to vote for Kerry. Not only is this tactic disgusting...it may actually have violated election laws thereby jeaprodizing the Catholic Church's "tax free" status for overtly supporting and/or overtly being against a particular political candidate. We have laws regarding religious institutions and their participation in politics....I would be interested to see if anyone calls them on it.


Sorry but we've had this discussion before. In no way is the catholic church violating ANY US law! They are not saying don't vote for Kerry (highly illegal), they are saying that politicans in office who support abortion and the death penalty are commiting a major sin (not against the law)!
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Reply #19 October 19, 2004 11:48:49 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Wow. I can say that I disagree with most of the responses on this thread vehemently.
There is so much for me to comment on there is no way I can quote everyone so I will take it one at a time, ( greywar!! gimme a break for once you clown;p )
historyishere: You know, it might just be me... but I didn't really hear about all those priests that molested children getting excommunicated.... I could be wrong about that, but honestly, if they haven't, well I think the Vatican has to re-examine its priorities...

The Priests who were found GUILTY of child sexual abuse were taken out of the ministry, removed from all duties as a Priest, and so on. Some WERE excommunicated but the Catholic Church indeed Christianity in general is about mercy and forgivness. Thats not saying what happend was in anyway justified in fact its one of the most deplorabel things anyone, espically a Priest, can do.

T Bone4justice:
I agree that the Vatican should absolutly have come down very, very hard on Priests found guilty and the fact that the Church in the US covered it up for so long was, and is, a huge mistake and scandalises the Church about as much as it can be. Man it was so wrong for the cover up to happen!
I do not agree that the Pope is trying to sway public opinion in anyway whatsoever. He is merely saying that Kerry, as an individual, is not adhering to the Faith in which he professes. Neiter the Pope nor the American Conference of Catholic Bishops have EVER backed a political canadatie.

dabe:
As i've stated in other threads, a President or any elected offical, has the DUTY to uphold the law of the land, but he or she would also have the DUTY to stand firm in their beliefs. A president can't change the law but he dosen't need to officaly back it either. Bush declared that Stem Cell Research was illegal, a decision that can be overturned, due largly because of his beliefs. But that dosent mean he "infused" his faith on Americans, he simply stood up for what he thoght was right. If a new president wishes he could overturn that decision. Its happened in the past. Bush overturned Clinton's promise to allow US Military Members from being held accountable at a Wold Court.
Bush CANT be excommunicated he is not a Catholic, thats it. And Christianity and most other mainstream religions, it is acceptable, not ok, for people to die in self defense or a "just war" bear in mind that the Pope did not back Operation Iraqi Freedom and if he would have come out and declared it an "unjust" war I would have simply not participated regardless of the consequences. Im a soldier yes, a patriot yes, but im a praticing Catholic first. The vatican as a city state dosent mean all that much to me, but the Pope, in spiritual matters does.

myrrander: Well the Pope matters to me and to all real, praticing, Catholics and to most other Nations. The Chruch has donated vast sums of money, for a small city state, to various charities and the Pope has helped resolve many internationl disputes. His concern is peace for the world and any attmept at all to check those facts will prove my point.

drimmler: I tend to agree with your responses.

To all: Obviously im a Catholic and will defend my Church the best that I can but by no means am I an expert on that topic, but with a littel reasearch I usually counter an argument. I don't normally allow my Religion to influence my political decisions but for the most part, that which my Church teaches I adhere to. I am pro-life, against the death penalty ( well sort of) against Stem Cell Research, but not only because my Church is, because I PERSONNALY belive in these things.
I don't mind dissent at all and actually like discussing, debating, or even "arguing" about my faith. It helps me know why I belive the way I do. Im not a closed minded "Jesus Freak", although that phrase disturbs me. Im non judmental to the best of my ability and will concide valid points. But again, I will defend my beliefs and if you think of that objectivly its actually a good thing. If some one won't stand up for what they believe in, then they are a coward and don't really belive anyway.....just like Sen Kerry.
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Reply #20 October 19, 2004 1:03:02 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
UH OH, Vatican says today they said no such thing to the lawyer.

Vatican denies it responded to lawyer seeking Kerry's excommunication [LINK]
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Reply #21 October 19, 2004 1:03:17 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #20 By: Dysmas - 10/19/2004 11:48:49 AM


Bush declared that Stem Cell Research was illegal


He did not declare stem cell research illegal. They are still allowed to experiment with the 22 lines that they have available. He has also funded said research to the tune of over 20 millon. He's is against partial-birth abortions (as am I). Basically he doesn't want them to have abortins to collect more stem cells. Other than this I can honestly say I agree with you.
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Reply #22 October 19, 2004 8:09:01 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
drimiler:
Point taken, I stand corrected.
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Myrrander
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Reply #23 October 19, 2004 8:11:57 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
myrrander: Well the Pope matters to me and to all real, praticing, Catholics and to most other Nations. The Chruch has donated vast sums of money, for a small city state, to various charities and the Pope has helped resolve many internationl disputes. His concern is peace for the world and any attmept at all to check those facts will prove my point.


But you have to admit that Rodrigo Borgia (Alexander VI) was a damn sight more interesting than John Paul II.

what's a "real, practicing Catholic?" I like it when Christians try to define what a "real" one of whatever flavor they are. It's amusing.
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Reply #24 October 19, 2004 9:26:35 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #24 By: Myrrander - 10/19/2004 8:11:57 PM
myrrander: Well the Pope matters to me and to all real, praticing, Catholics and to most other Nations. The Chruch has donated vast sums of money, for a small city state, to various charities and the Pope has helped resolve many internationl disputes. His concern is peace for the world and any attmept at all to check those facts will prove my point.


But you have to admit that Rodrigo Borgia (Alexander VI) was a damn sight more interesting than John Paul II.

what's a "real, practicing Catholic?" I like it when Christians try to define what a "real" one of whatever flavor they are. It's amusing.


You want a *perfect* example? I can't tell you what is but I can tell you what ain't! John Kerry is a perfect example of ain't! He believes in abortion which is against church doctrine. Ergo not a practicing catholic or he's a wanna-be. I'm a Lutheran so without my brother-in-law arond to help I'm kinda lost. He's a catholic.
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Reply #25 October 19, 2004 9:30:31 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Ah, drmiler, c'mon, that's a typical response...
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