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DrathKar
DrathKar
Join Date 05/2008
+2

Stated Damage of Weapons and there Actual Damage

May 14, 2008 1:25:00 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I am not sure if anyone else has noticed but ship damage for capitalships seems wrong.

Take the Dunlov, its missile and gauss do under half the damage of the lasers(apparently)


Yet the dunlovs missiles and gauss agasint otherships DO ALOT more damage then the lasers do.
its EXTREMLY noticeable once they turn to broadside with there lasers instead of using rockets gauss they end up doing less damage.


IT also has the same effect on buildings the Missiles and Guass which are spose to basicly do nothing DO alot more damage then the laser broadsides which from the damage tally surposedly are far more powerful then them combined.

any one know the reason why? bug? or what?
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DrathKar
Annatar11
Join Date 11/2006
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Reply #1 May 14, 2008 1:34:15 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
The damage numbers shown in the infocard are rounded damage-per-second numbers, and can be misleading with capitals (though accurate).

Basically, say your Kol has autocannons on both sides, but its beam is frontal only. For easy numbers, let's say the left and right autocannon banks both do 40 damage with a 4 second cooldown, the infocard will display 20 for autocannon damage (40+40)/4, 20 DPS. Now, if the beam does 80 damage with a 4 second cooldown, it'll also show 20 DPS (80/4). Both numbers are accurate, but the problem is the Kol can't target both autocannon banks on the same ship, so only half that can be applied to the actual target.
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DrathKar
DrathKar
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #2 May 14, 2008 2:53:23 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
It doesnt add up.

Dunov has 2 laserbanks and they do over double the damage of the missile and guass which is 1 bank.

So the lasers should STILL do more damage.
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DrathKar
Annatar11
Join Date 11/2006
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Reply #3 May 14, 2008 3:05:31 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Okay, from the Dunov's entity file:

WeaponClassType "AUTOCANNON"
DamagePerBank:FRONT 30.000000
DamagePerBank:BACK 0.000000
DamagePerBank:LEFT 0.000000
DamagePerBank:RIGHT 0.000000
Range 5000.000000
PreBuffCooldownTime 5.000000

WeaponClassType "LASERTECH"
DamagePerBank:FRONT 0.000000
DamagePerBank:BACK 12.000000
DamagePerBank:LEFT 97.000000
DamagePerBank:RIGHT 97.000000
Range 5000.000000
PreBuffCooldownTime 6.000000

WeaponClassType "MISSILE"
DamagePerBank:FRONT 48.000000
DamagePerBank:BACK 0.000000
DamagePerBank:LEFT 0.000000
DamagePerBank:RIGHT 0.000000
Range 5500.000000
PreBuffCooldownTime 8.000000

So on the info card, with no upgrades and a level 1 Dunov, this should show:

Autocannon: 6 (30/5)
Laser: 34 ((97+97+12)/6) rounded down
Missile: 6 (48/8)

Is that what it shows? Also note that as ships take damage their shield mitigation goes up, so these damage numbers displayed are modified by that as well.
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DrathKar
theRetroboy
Join Date 02/2008
+19
Reply #4 May 14, 2008 4:48:25 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
ALSO ALSO - you have to factor in the type of armor that's getting damaged.

A flak cannon has a huge damage rate if you look at the infocard for that ship. But flak is pretty much useless against heavy armor, and it tears through extra-light armor.

-- Retro
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DrathKar
Annatar11
Join Date 11/2006
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Reply #5 May 14, 2008 5:26:14 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
True for frigates, but all capital ship weapons are the same attack type so that part is ruled out when comparing strictly capitals
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DrathKar
DrathKar
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #6 May 14, 2008 5:32:06 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Annatar I know WHAT it shows its the DAMAGE its doing thats diffrent

Try it
the Gauss and Missiles DO more damage then the lasers.
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DrathKar
Astax
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #7 May 15, 2008 12:00:51 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
DrathKar stop your uninformed posts claiming doom.

Dunnov, just like all support caps, doesn't fire all its weapons forward. The listed damage is split half and half because half the guns face one side half the other.

It is impossible to bring all the damage against one target. And if 2 targets are present you will only do full damage if one is on either side of the ship.
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DrathKar
bohbohb
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #8 May 15, 2008 3:26:29 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
You guys are missing his point- He's saying the Dunov (apparently) does more damage from a frontal attack in practice, when the numbers would indicate the highest damage output is from a broadside attack. 12DPS from front, 16.1666~DPS from broadside.

At least, if I'm understanding DrathKar correctly. I don't play TEC so I cannot speak the validity of his statement, other than what you guys have already pointed out.
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DrathKar
theRetroboy
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #9 May 15, 2008 6:42:12 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Good point, Annatar.

On the OP - just checking to ensure shield mitigation has been factored into the damage observation. If more weapons of greater damage are firing very quickly, shield mitigation would jump up faster incrementally and make overall damage appear a bit lower. So 50 points of damage might be mitigated at, say, 25% level (depending on hit point health of the target) for 37 points, but 200 points in the same level would be mitigated at 65% for 70 points of damage, making the EFFECTIVE damage of the weapons look a LOT lower.

To really analyze the damage, park a Dunov in the middle of several enemy structures where shield mitigation won't make the math a nightmare.

-- Retro
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DrathKar
DrathKar
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #10 May 15, 2008 1:27:36 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
strctures are one of the things that they seem to do the highest damage to.

the lasers seem to do more damage to seige frigates....

I am wondering if the game splits damage into pulses so that if it does 45 damage from its banks and it fires 6 laser pulses if its 40/6

which would explain why it seems to do less damage... because agasint armored targets it actually is due to armor reduction.
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DrathKar
BFeetful0
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #11 May 16, 2008 10:42:20 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
ok, first of all, it probably does do more damage with the gauss and missles, because the lasers are firing from both sides then it isn't broad-facing a target, but you have to take armor and shield mitigation into concern too...
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DrathKar
ericbrown84
Join Date 11/2007
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Reply #12 May 16, 2008 11:34:50 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
the damage listed on the infocard is the maximum Potential DPS assuming all weapon banks have a target, not the DPS against a single target.
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DrathKar
DrathKar
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #13 May 16, 2008 2:33:30 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
why is it that people on the forums DONT read posts in a thread then make assumptions?

im just wondering I have never seen it quite so bad but here on the Sins forums.
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DrathKar
jchurley113
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #14 May 19, 2008 5:04:27 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
AFAIK, any ship with more than one firing bank can target the same target with two banks at once if the target is at an angle between the two banks. at least aesthetically this happens and i assume the Dunov does this as well.


could it be that you are simply noticing an abnormally large amount of DPS because the target is being hit by the cannon and the lasers and the missiles all together as the Dunov and/or the target moves/turns?

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