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thebadchopper
thebadchopper
Join Date 03/2008
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Devs: ok.. this is the last post.. I promise

April 20, 2008 10:16:48 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hey guys...

I know this may seem like a bit of a bitch - but last time I posted here I got a heaps quick response from the Developers and it was like heaven. Anyway - let me get this started. I am SO great full the amount of patches, and all the stuff you guys have been doing for the game, I still love sins, I think it is amazing.

The only problem is... still... my mates, who play Vasari, Still believe that "Returning Armada" levels one AND two, are inbalanced...

I don't think the developers know what the problem is here, I don't know, but maybe they don't play long enough games (I’m not being an asshole here, I swear, I'm serious though) - but in all seriousness... You can't tell me that a TEC player, who has an the Insurgency Upgrade, compared to a Vasari player with the RA upgrade are equally matched..

Maybe at the beginning, when he only has two phase gates, but play a big map, 10 phase gates... one on each planet... no need for upgrades anymore... Just try and defeat him...

As TEC or Advent... There is NO possible way to do it unless he is the worst human being on earth and terrible at life as well as Sins...

Or you Rush him... I'm sorry to say, but rushing somebody isn't a tactic which should be relative... (I play against my mates all the time.. and eliminating them early isn’t sporting in our eyes...)

I just want the Devs to TRY it... you made some changes in the last patch… like fixed the problems with the over cap... but... still... RA compared to insurgency???  is nothing...

I like to enjoy a game with "No rules" so that no "gentleman’s agreements" need to be made in order to play - I don't think the answer is saying "ok, we just won't use RA" because a game should be fair out of the box...

Finally, I know, this has been a really hugely brought up subject... but if you can please EVEN justify your reasons for saying that it is balanced... it would be worth my time.

As I said initially thank you for the support...

But please… GOD... let them fix RA on 1.1

Out.

 

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thebadchopper
innociv
Join Date 02/2008
+34
Reply #1 April 20, 2008 11:51:07 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Kay. Good to hear your concerns.

Like we said before, learn to play.


RA is powerful because newbs can use it almost as effectiveness as the veteran players. So if you have a bunch of newbs playing each other, one going RA has a big advantage. While in a game with skilled players, it's not much of an advantage, it's just even to tecs eco spam, and Advent has much more powerful fleets at lower fleet cap.


RA doesnt' need to be nerfed, it needs to not oversimplify the game so it's better for skilled players and worse for newbies. If it's just nerfed it'd be simply removed from the game for good players, which is stupid.
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thebadchopper
psychoak
Join Date 07/2007
+225
Reply #2 April 20, 2008 6:03:18 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Build more frigate factories. Lots more. If your map is large enough for someone to get that many phase gates out, it's large enough for you to be producing out of several factories. You may not be able to outproduce free units, but you sure as hell can outfight them. There obviously aren't very many defensive structures in a phase gate strategy. Scout kill them and walk all over the poorly balanced fleet with limited defensive help. TEC and advent both have the awesome cheese power of suicidal scout ships to blow the hell out of phase gates left and right.

It's quite possible that with a phase gate strategy, you'll neuter the bastard on the first attack when his fleet is caught far from aid, expecting to warp right into the place before your dirt cheap scout fleets blew the phase gates in that well and the surrounding ones, leaving him with his pants down.
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thebadchopper
MrPeebuddy
Join Date 03/2008
0
Reply #3 April 20, 2008 6:46:20 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
You know what you can do to SEE RA comming? You f-ing SCOUT idiot. Then you know what you do when you see someone going for RA??? You ATTACK HIM because he is stupid and has nothing to defend. THAT - IS - HOW - YOU - BEAT - RA. Now stop your bitching.
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thebadchopper
Advalary
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #4 April 20, 2008 6:53:11 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
MrPeebuddy, be civil, noone takes someone who posts like you seriously. You don't like reading his posts, then don't, noone is forcing you too.

Anyways, as to the OP, I've always understood vasari to shine in the late game, but they struggle in the early game. RA should be powerful, but as inno said, if you know what your doing, TEC and Advent can counter RA with their own race specialties, you just need to learn how best to exploit them.
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thebadchopper
MrPeebuddy
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #5 April 20, 2008 8:17:53 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
MrPeebuddy, be civil, noone takes someone who posts like you seriously. You don't like reading his posts, then don't, noone is forcing you too.Anyways, as to the OP, I've always understood vasari to shine in the late game, but they struggle in the early game. RA should be powerful, but as inno said, if you know what your doing, TEC and Advent can counter RA with their own race specialties, you just need to learn how best to exploit them.


Not after the 5000th post on the same subject, maybe my replies will discourage morons to post this crap on the forums so we have less noise to filter through when trying to select an appropriate post to read. BTW, if this would of been called: NERF RA BWAAAA BOOHHHOOO (Babie cries), I wouldn't have read it but since this post name is so misleading as to the subject I had no choice but to read it.
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thebadchopper
Bobucles
Join Date 03/2008
+13
Reply #6 April 20, 2008 9:09:28 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
maybe my replies will discourage
Oh yeah. You're a one man army on a mission to save the internet. Good luck with that.

Or you can take some responsibility for your degenerate psychological condition by not reading the posts that inflame you, and thus spare yourself from your rampant forum arson.
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thebadchopper
Frogboy
Join Date 03/2001
+2415 sdemperor
Reply #7 April 20, 2008 10:13:03 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

You know what you can do to SEE RA comming? You f-ing SCOUT idiot.

Okay, let me put it like this. I'm going to start taking away people's posting priviledges if I see flaming going forward.

Let's treat each other with some respect, please.

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thebadchopper
Windexglow
Join Date 07/2007
+3
Reply #8 April 20, 2008 10:22:29 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Pee; I think there's a problem when the only way to counter a technology is to kill that person first.
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thebadchopper
baka_tare
Join Date 03/2008
0
Reply #9 April 20, 2008 11:02:07 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
bah.. ra is easy enough to defeat on many levels.. typical ra will have many many frigates and carriers all of which are not upgraded.. just have a better fleet.. they depend on having t8 social development.. wipe out their research stations, and ra stops working.. develop many planet buster cannons, tec can 2 shot a planet into oblivion
see the articles on advent guardians.. who cares how big their fleet is, 6 advent ships can lock them all in one grav well indefinitely while the rest of their fleet wipes the supporting technology (look out for them having the t6 phase gate capship however)
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thebadchopper
theleif
Join Date 01/2006
+1
Reply #10 April 20, 2008 11:28:15 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
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thebadchopper
PurplePaladin
Join Date 02/2008
+35
Reply #11 April 21, 2008 1:54:33 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Frogboy and theleif, thanks for the posts. It's very difficult seeing people so rude to others, but never posting "more" in case it flames the fire. It's VERY nice to see some moderation Frogboy

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thebadchopper
P5yy
Join Date 06/2007
+19
Reply #12 April 21, 2008 5:50:16 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I actually see where the OP is coming from.

Now firstly I play online and in skilled games. Takes balls to go RA in skilled games as your compromising your early game and in skill games theres alot of early game assault and scouting, especially with homeworlds being with 4 jumps of each other. If one does get RA in a skill game then he deserves his overpowered spam for such a feat or the enemy deserves to die because he didnt bother to scout out the RA and attack when he has the opportunity.

However the Original poster is talking about a LAN game with a mate. Now tell me if im wrong but im assuming that a typical LAN game is something like this...

Hugh Random Map - 5 Stars
2 Human Players
8 AI Players
Diplomacy On

Only his mate will be aware of the dangers of RA , but he could be in a different solar system and has to deal with AI players in his system . Its very easy to go RA if you only have AI in your system. You could pwn the AI , or you can simply manipulate alliances with the AI. By the time your mate has even found where you are , you could already have RA with a few dozen gates.


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thebadchopper
MrPeebuddy
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #13 April 21, 2008 12:47:05 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I'm sorry for my post.... It was wrong of me to say such things. Let me make another more civil one:

thebadchopper, you are right, RA is OP. However, as an experienced player, I have found a way not to die from RA. First of all, to be an effective player, scouting is a must. If you see RA comming, but pressure on that player by attacking/harrasing him.
He will then have no choice but to start building some units, right? This buys you precious time to increase your fleet size/economy which will then be used to crush this player when RA is but in it's infant stages.



Either that, or you can hide behind a wall of kittens and hope he doesn't find you.
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thebadchopper
NapalmEnema
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #14 April 21, 2008 12:57:21 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Either that, or you can hide behind a wall of kittens and hope he doesn't find you.


STOP GIVING AWAY MY WINNING STRATEGIES!! NERF THE GAME SO I DON'T HAVE TO THINK IS MUCH EASIER.

THANKS.
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thebadchopper
Skinlo
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #15 April 21, 2008 1:00:41 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Sorry for being a noob here, but what does RA stand for??
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thebadchopper
NapalmEnema
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #16 April 21, 2008 1:03:08 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Return Armada - end tech tree skill of Vasari
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thebadchopper
Skinlo
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #17 April 21, 2008 1:09:18 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Ah righty, thanks

Haven't got round to playing that race yet, still stuck in a marathon 10 hours+ game with the tec
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thebadchopper
maheshjr2004
Join Date 12/2007
+1
Reply #18 April 21, 2008 6:31:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Honestly everytime I play vasari I havent ever seen the need to go RA. I just pump out Cap after Cap after Cap. But as a frequent vasari player I can honestly say they need all the help they can get. Their early game upgrades are a joke, oh yes phase missles oooh!(sarcasm) and they have some of the most expensive ships in game, what is it two cobalts per skirmisher? It may seem overwhelming by the end of the game but then every race is overwhelming IMO. The advent abilities scare me, the terrans have that god damn novalith, and the vasari have a free fleet. I still dont see why everyone says OP though. It takes a lot of time to get to RA, same with the novalith, and the really sick abilities of the advent. Think about it this way, a terran player who actually grabs novaliths doesnt need the fleet for anything other than defense. his novaliths in safe territories can eliminate enemy planets. I know that everyone is going to mention recharge time and all that but at the same time why does everyone expect to only have one novalith? If a vasari player can pull out 10 phase nodes why cant a terran pull out 5 novaliths? Thats 1 and 2/3s planets per salvo. Maybe even more without emergency ifrastructure. Add to that the crazy economy of the TEC and you have a huge defense fleet that is easily replacable. The vasari player who relies on RA will not be able to access a coherent fleet at all. He might have a cap or two but not a fleet customized to his play style like normal construction would. So while I do see how RA can be overwhelming I still dont think its that big of a deal. I compare it on the titan in AOM. You CAN stop it. I am not saying that anyone who cant stop RA sucks because thats not true. Taking a page from forest gump, shit happens. A game might not go so well but that doesnt make RA the ubergan(sharingan) or the mighty sword excalibur or any ultimate weapon like that.
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thebadchopper
Yellowknife
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #19 April 21, 2008 7:55:47 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
From what i've seen its not entirely OP imo. The amount of tactical slots + resources + time it takes for RA to be really effective is time for you to build a larger fleet. (And its really annoying gathering up all the ships as they come in ><)
Maybe I'm wrong here as well, but doesnt RA only give light carriers/figates? Not exactly Heavy Cruisers/Capital Ships you could theorictally have in place of the resource cost of those phase gates.
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thebadchopper
maheshjr2004
Join Date 12/2007
+1
Reply #20 April 21, 2008 8:54:01 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
yellow it does give HCs. It just doesnt give caps.
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thebadchopper
Yellowknife
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #21 April 21, 2008 8:56:40 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Well you could have more caps then
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thebadchopper
maheshjr2004
Join Date 12/2007
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Reply #22 April 21, 2008 8:58:38 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
true true I loves me some caps
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