If you're looking for a "real" RTS you're better off with WiC. Sins is a sort of odd (and IMO not entirely successful) hybrid that tries to combine RTS and 4X games and frankly doesn't result in a very good example of either. It's pretty to watch, and the scale is (as the packaging says) undeniably unrivaled, but I can't recommend the actual gameplay.

I think it's awesome and addictive. if you like space battles and meetin cool people to play with online, with some good old strategy and an epic scale, you should definately pick this game up.

Having played both extensively, I can say that if you want a single player game, get Sins. If you want quick multiplayer action in 20-minute spurts (and to play competitively) get WiC.

The two games are really apples and oranges.

Just make up your mind.

Most of us think it's a great game, as do the reviews. That's all you need to know.

-- Retro

Wic is another game that's tough to categorize but calling it "another boring RTS" is disingenuous. You can't just spam units either, you are capped out at less than a dozen units.

It's more of a RTT- no dirt farming, and you'd better coordinate with your teammates if you want to win.

WiC and Sins have almost nothing in common except that you play them both using a PC.

Just because this game isn't for you doesn't make this a bad game or 'needing months of work' to get better. It's gotten high marks from all gaming sites, and deservedly so. I bought it, love it, and talked my two friends into getting it and they love it too.

It's a great 'new feeling' game as it's an RTS that isn't all frantic and click crazy. It's a wonderfully realized vision that has a lot of depth to it, and an interface for playing that is second to none.

I'd strongly recommend you buy it, I've not regretted it and consider it to be up there with Heroes Of Might and Magic in terms of fun engrossing strategy games.

And just because you do like it doesn't mean it's a great game that everyone will enjoy and that it's perfect and needs no further work. Opinion is just that.

For my part, I bought it, I'm stuck with it (because Stardock's registration system is such that I can't legitimately sell it) so there's nothing for me to do but try to get the parts of the game that are poor (the AI, the diplo system, the research system to some degree) fixed and to warn others that in my opinion they are well advised to wait for that to happen.

Or, you could point them to the demo so they can see for themselves, rather than reading biased (from both sides, to be fair) rhetoric

If it had resulted in a "very good" example of either in their classic form the attempt would have been a total failure. The whole point was to combine elements of both to provide something new. Whether that something is 'better' than a classic RTS or 4X game is a matter of opinion, of course, but for those who prefer something more conventional there is hardly a shortage of choice. IMHO Sins succeeds superbly. Doesn't mean it's perfect, of course - but can you name either an RTS or 4X game that is?

According to previous comments by IC/DC the game should be able to run on low-end computers. You seem to think just because the game crashes it is the fault of the player. It would seem to me that the game crashing and other poor aspects of it is due to the software.

IMO, all SD/IC has to do is fix mini-dump errors and the game is GREAT.

I am the clan leader of one of the largest clans in WiC (World in conflict) with over 200 members. I played WiC everyday for 6 months straight.

Sins is the better choice because:

1) WiC is an older game and as a newbie, you will get seriously spanked by the majority of players there since most of them have 6 months of playing experience on you. It wont be fun for you.

2) WiC can get boring very fast since there are no buildings or structures for you to build. Sins gives you the ability to build many different things.

3) WiC can get boring very fast since you only have control of 4 to 10 units. You can have multiple dozens in Sins, even hundreds!

4) Wic is a tactical game. Sins is a RTGS (Real-Time Grand Strategy game) and tactical game.

5) I estimate WiC of having an average play life of 3 months for the average player, while Sins will keep you entertained for over a year easily.

"Barely out of the gates?" In the US, at least, it's been out for 2 months. They've posted a planned patch schedule all the way out to version 1.1 (presumably several weeks away) so we have some notion of what's coming in the next while as well. Since diplo is mentioned in none of those cases, and has in fact specifically been mentioned as something that might only be addressed in an expansion, I think I have a right to be concerned on that point.

I'm glad you enjoy the game, I'm glad you feel it is "great solid and well rounded." I would ask that you allow for the possibility that some people feel that there are problems with various elements of the game that damage the playing experience in such a way that we do not find the game fun. Since Stardock (the publisher) has a well earned reputation for fantastic post release support, the hope is that by bringing these flaws to the attention of the devs and making it clear that they are a major problem for a portion of the community these problems can be addressed and even more people can enjoy the game.

In the interim, I personally was brought to this game by the advertising and reviews, which I feel do not give an accurate picture of the game play. Consequently, I have endeavored to bring certain problems that I have with the title to the attention of potential customers who might, like myself, find themselves regretting their purchase decision. Since it's impossible to legally resell this game (something else that should be brought to potential buyers attention, incidentally) making an appropriate purchase decision is all the more important. I feel the positive points of the game are being amply represented by other posters and the media, but in threads like this the game's flaws are frequently glossed over.

I am having little to no impact on the sales of this title, all you have to do is look at the sales charts. There's no shortage of money flowing into Ironclad's coffers and as such there's no reason they're going to have trouble finding the funds to continue development. An expansion is already in the works, I think it's safe to say they're doing just fine.

As to being "feature complete and bug free" at release, I didn't own the game until a week or so after release by which point it had already been patched twice, so I couldn't say. The current version is certainly very stable and, in my experience, largely free of bugs. I give Ironclad credit for that rather frequently, actually.

Thanks for all the replies guys, I'll definitely look into Sins a lot more.