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Fahrenheit and Fahrenhype 9/11

ShoZan

Join Date 08/2004

Fahrenheit and Fahrenhype 9/11

Many KNOW about the release of Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 on DVD on Oct. 5th.

Few KNOW about the release of Fahrenhype 9/11, the rebuttal to Fahrenheit 9/11 and Michael Moore on DVD on Oct. 5th.

So if you really want to be an indenpendant thinker instead of mindless automaton, watch both, and compare, than see which one was true, but don't stick to one because it just supports your party...anyways before I get too deep, just watch both with an OPEN MIND, mind you, Open not closed, OPEN, OPEN, OPEN, than see for the REAL truth for what it is.

Link to Fahrenhype 9/11, has a trailer in Quicktime and Windows Media

Link Mikey's site with info on his 911 film.

Also in Fahrenhype 9/11, Sgt. Peter Damon and Sarasota School Principal Tose-Rigell speak out about their appearances in Mikey's movie.

As for Mikey's weight problem, I as being a former United States Army Specialist on Active Duty, have this to say to him:

"Before you continue to save other people by showing the "truth", you should first save yourself from an problem that could cause you to suffer from ailments that go along with that weight, lose weight, get healthy, than continue on, that is all."

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Just answered my own question , but I knew I was right. Army man. Mass murderer.

One more remark like that and I will make sure that on MY ARTICLES ALONE at least that you never post again.

I will never accept negative hate filled remarks about any branch of the military on any of my articles, because that is just wrong, no way around it either.

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Michael Moore calls Americans stupid when in Europe, even though he is an American. I guess to a "moderate", that's loving your country.

And there are many in the Military who have done NOTHING for this Country. Tim McVeigh was a military man wasn't he?

There are also people in Hollywood who have done nothing for this country yet have received an award for a film. Receiving an award is irrelevant, unless we should listen to what Britney Spears has to say about politics since she sells so many CDs. Of course, since she's not as rabid as most "moderates", I'm sure her opinion is insignificant, eh?

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Once again , I don't think Moore said "all" Americans are stupid. But he's right , we are. We put up with the worst of everything and call it the best.

Everything is made in China , and we rush to the stores to buy it. We are hooked on fast food and TV and we fight all the time.

The opinion of much of the World is that we are worse than stupid - we are stupid AND lazy.

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Does anyone know who they were in the movie?

The only thing I know about Sgt. Peter Damon, was that he was a US Army Soldier who lost both of his arms.

Here's the best link I could find on him.
Info on Him:
Link

Info on his role in 9/11 and some of things he speaks out about because of it:
Link

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Shozan

The truth seems to bother you. Tim McVeigh was an Army man AND a mass murderer. Whether you believe it or not , there are gung ho men and women who go to war just to kill. That doesn't make them heros in my book.

Now the ones who go and fight, and sometimes give their lives - they are heroes in a way. But you can't deny it - McVeigh was a mass murderer.

If censorship is your thing , very unAmerican - then fine - it says more about you than anything.

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Who did Moore specify then when he called Americans stupid?

Of course we're stupid to the rest of the world, just like how France is full of smelly arrogant perverts to us. Therefore, it must be true that France is full of smelly arrogant perverts since that's how we view them. Brits have bad dental hygiene too because we think they do and Canadians say "eh" all the time.

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we are stupid AND lazy.

Speak for yourself there, I try to excercise as much as possible, and I am going to College for a Bachelor's Degree in English Linguistics, no laziness here.

What? I need examples here, to know what I consider the best when it is actually the worst, and don't point out Bush, because I don't like Bush and I don't like Kerry, because neither are the ideal candidate for myself a true Centrist Independent, always the best course of action over the party's ideas.

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I am for Fahrenheit 9/11. Why? Because it did Kerry more harm than good. Because of his film, people realized that extreme left lies and lies. Saddam Iraq is a peaceful country? Com'on. 5000 Iraqian children die every MONTH under Saddam according to UN. It is like a genocide country. Oh yes, Moore complains about Bush pulling resources from Afghanistan to Iraq therefore missed the opporunity to capture bin Laden. First, that is not truthful. Second, didn't Moore oppose the Afghan War and called bin Laden innocent? So what do he care if we take resource away from capturing an innocent person.

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The truth seems to bother you. Tim McVeigh was an Army man AND a mass murderer. Whether you believe it or not , there are gung ho men and women who go to war just to kill. That doesn't make them heros in my book.

Now the ones who go and fight, and sometimes give their lives - they are heroes in a way. But you can't deny it - McVeigh was a mass murderer.

If censorship is your thing , very unAmerican - then fine - it says more about you than anything.

Yes but I thought with that remark alone you were saying that just because he was an Army Man he was bad. Not to mention it also looked like that you made the connection that all Army Men are Mass Murders simply because they are in the Army, and that I find very UnArmy and I hate that, considering I am Pro-Army myself.

Now as for Timmy, he was tried and convicted, put to death as well, but his military service and the Army is not in question, the man is.

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Mass murderer.

That's going too far. I don't agree with the war in Iraq and the sanctions, but you can't blame the troops for it. I blame the man at the top.

To me, Michael Moore did a great thing in saying what many of us on the left have been saying for a long time, which is why his movie was so refreshing. I like the fact that people are out debating the stuff in the movie, but it does help to see the movie.

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The only thing I know about Sgt. Peter Damon, was that he was a US Army Soldier who lost both of his arms.

Oh! I remember him. He was pretty much talking about how he lost his limbs.

I thought for a second it was the marine who said he would rather get arrested than to go fight other poor people in Iraq. That would've been bad.

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Everything is made in China , and we rush to the stores to buy it. We are hooked on fast food and TV and we fight all the time.

I think what's also funny about this statement is that in other countries, people often get into huge fights over a freakin' sport, are consumers too (Sony and the like exist in other countries too, including Japan), and import stuff.

Of course, America will always look bad when it's the only country you ever read about.

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He could have been a Marine or Air Force serviceman, not sure, can't find any exact info pinning down what branch he was in, all it says is he was a Aircraft Mechanic, which could be any service, since they all have Aircraft, but Sgt turns down the notion that he might have been Navy because Sgt is not a title used in the Navy.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

Don't you find it interesting that someone with the handle "liveletlive" is such a sanctimonious jerk? I would have expected someone soothing, reasonable and tolerant of others' views. Just shows you what a distorted image some of us have of ourselves.

Cheers,
Daiwa

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ShoZan: Thanks for sharing that bit about you and your military experience.

I was tired of studying engineering fields altogether in College, and was pretty much burnt out, so I was looking at joining the military

It was much the same start for my husband. We were both in school, and he said he decided he was tired of "spinning his wheels." Although it's not always great, I think his joining the Army has been a good thing for our family.

and heard about the Warrant Officer Flight Training Program (Helicopter Pilot), and read that I only needed to be a High School Grad, able to pass a Flight Physical, able to score 90 or better on the Army Flight Aptitude Skills Test, and so high on the ASVAB, this was in June 2001 when I first started looking into and applying

Very impressive.

Began Basic Training first week of December, I guess it could be said my downfall to my military career struck in the second week, when I injured my back during training, but continued on, not caring if I caused permanent damage, I was determined, though at some times it didn't quite show, to get through Basic and Become a Helicopter Pilot. I graduated at Fort Sill from Basic Training on Feb. 21, shipped out to Fort Rucker for Warrant Officer School on Feb. 23, turned 21 on Feb. 24, my birthday, and went through the process to enter the Warrant Officer School.

Wow. That's also impressive.

but as my luck would have it, orders came down that sent me to Fort Benning for Infantry Training in July 2002.

I am amazed at people who willingly choose infantry. I wouldn't want my husband doing it, but somebody's got to, right?

Now for what I did while I was still in service but could not be an infantryman, well Drill Sergeants, First Sergeant, and the Company Commander had me come into the Operations Room, and initially I worked with the Operations NCO alias Training Room NCO who are responsible for not only the Trainee's records, but make sure that the soldiers who do graduate have their packet together, which includes training certificates, plane tickets, and other things, etc.

Although I'm sure that's not what you had envisioned yourself doing, it is important and vital nonetheless.

That's about it, I think I put all the info there, if you have a question about it, I will try to answer it to the best of my knowledge.

Thank you for taking the time to share that with me. Did you like Ft. Benning?

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Did you like Ft. Benning?

Yes and no, I liked the people, but hated the location, it's freaking' Hot and Sweaty, first time you step outside you just start sweating, or after a rain you just feel like the air itself is weighted and hot, but I loved it for the people I met both Military and not, so once you get used to the heat and humidity, it's not such a bad place, though there are bad sections of Columbus, and not a whole lot of things to do, but still enough to keep one occupied, plus Atlanta is not that far away.

Of course, Air Force Bases seem to always be in prime locations, like forget the name, but Air Force Base right next to Panama City, Florida, which Panama City isn’t completely great, but the beaches and view on that base was a 'to die for' location, not to mention the beaches on the base were well maintained, and no weeds in the shallow parts of the beach, not to mention no rocks either, than again it was the Air Force after all. Air Force Bases were built later and therefore put in some good spots, but there are also ones in bad spots.

Looking back, Fort Benning could have been worse it could have been Fort Polk that is out in the Swamps.

Though if you go to Fort Benning you will realize that Sandhill is appropriately named, after all it's always 10 degrees hotter on Sandhill than the rest of the base, probably due to the fact of the sand.

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Well for myself, Mikey’s derogatory remarks saying all Americans were stupid was uncalled for and unjustified, as for being a HERO, only a Man or Woman in Uniform and their families, will ever be a HERO in my eyes.

I have had 10 friends who were in the Military. None were ever put in harms way. 9 were inlisted, and 1 was a career Army man. Before he retired, he spent time on a ship,
but most of the time at a desk. He never saw combat , as did none of the others.

Still think he's a hero ? He ( and they don't ) . They took a job for an education , and one took a job to retire as an Army man. While I appreciate that they worked at a job for 4
to 6 years, or 25 years, they are not heroes. They simply signed up for a job. All of them are Gay. Still think they are heroes?

Now, those who see battle and those who die are heroes in a way, in my opinion. We tend to throw the word "hero" alot. Matt Damon and Vin Deisel are called " action heroes " , as are some pro wrestlers and even a Governator.

And Messy :

Brittney Spears has said in interviews that she supports Bush.

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Shozan ;

I can't imagine how you got THAT from my post. The Military does an unbelieveable service to our Country. You need to separate someone's dislike of the war for
the supposed lack of support.

When you finally see Farenheit 9/11 , you will see what I mean. Moore doesn't need to let his words speak - everyone else does it for him.
Listen to the woman from Flint at first , and then later. Love the warrior , despise the war. I always pray for peace, so that no more of our people ( and the Country we are
at war with 's people ) will die.

So , since Bush is no war hero , and Kerry is , I assume you'll vote for Kerry?

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If you could see the post that was deleted, you might understand. But I doubt it - some people call good honest people like me names anyway.

I just laugh - as if you know me - ha! I have to listen and understand everyone's views - but mine - NOOOOO , you can't handle the truth.

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Reply #44 By: liveletlive - 9/15/2004 12:53:36 AM
Don't you find it interesting that someone with the handle "liveletlive" is such a sanctimonious jerk? I would have expected someone soothing, reasonable and tolerant of others' views. Just shows you what a distorted image some of us have of ourselves.

If you could see the post that was deleted, you might understand. But I doubt it - some people call good honest people like me names anyway.

I just laugh - as if you know me - ha! I have to listen and understand everyone's views - but mine - NOOOOO , you can't handle the truth.

It's not that we can't handle the "truth"? It's ALL in the presentation (which you need to work on) Now lets see how well "you" handle the truth!

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Brittney Spears has said in interviews that she supports Bush.

And since she sold so many CDs, we should all follow what she says, right? After all, because F9/11 making money and winning awards somehow gives Moore credibility.

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ShoZan,

You seem very smart and very knowledgable. I serious don't see how anyone can agree with Michael Moore. It is one thing to disagree with the war and Bush policy. It is another thing to like a liar. The guy has no point. He randomly attack people. Look. It is easy to attack people. It is difficult to take a stand. Michael has no stand. In his film, he implies Bush's decision to attack Iraq has make our Afghanistan effect weak and possibly missed the chance of capturing bin Laden -- our real threat. Hey, Michael! Didn't you said the Afghan War is unjustified and bin Laden is innocent? So why do you care when Bush missed his chance to capture an innocent bin Laden? Shouldn't you celebrate that?

Moore said that Blacks are over-represented in the Army and are dying for whites. Really? Michael, aren't you the one who said that if there would have more blacks on the planes on 9/11, the blacks would have overpowered the terrorists and saved the wimpy whites?

Link

So Michael if you thinks blacks are better fighters, why would you not want more blacks in the army? Why are you against blacks in the army, but for more blacks on hickjacked planes.

ShoZan, if you have a chance, please read an old article by Chris Hitchens. Chris wrote for The Nation, a very liberal guy, but even he can't stand Moore's inconsistency.

Link

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kingbee

Join Date 04/2004

+42

than see for the REAL truth for what it is

since when did dick morris and ann coulter stop telling the fake truth? (im pretty sure mayor coch is familiar with the truth--if not the REAL truth--cuz he used to hold a very important position: people's court judge)

referring to the REAL truth always puts me on my guard. like when someone says, okay you want the real truth? well what's the other choice? the half-real truth?

im willing to bet you any reasonable sum of money that farenhype 911 which opens on 10/5/2004 will be available for 99c at the 99c store no later than march 5, 2005...right on the same shelf as the books that seemed like such a good idea til they were printed and on the new books racks....like 'lyle menendez: in his own words' and oj simpson's 'let me tell you' .

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have had 10 friends who were in the Military. None were ever put in harms way. 9 were inlisted, and 1 was a career Army man. Before he retired, he spent time on a ship,
but most of the time at a desk. He never saw combat , as did none of the others.

Still think he's a hero ? He ( and they don't ) . They took a job for an education , and one took a job to retire as an Army man. While I appreciate that they worked at a job for 4
to 6 years, or 25 years, they are not heroes. They simply signed up for a job. All of them are Gay. Still think they are heroes?

Yes because the signed up for military service, whether they saw combat or not, they signed up and that constitutes a hero in my book. As for being Gay, I have nothing wrong with that, should I, apparently you think I should. If I did I would hate my Uncle (which yes I know it's a Puerto Rican Stereotype) but I don't I love my uncle (not in that way sick-Os) even though he is gay.

A Great American once said "... ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

I also count National Service Program (i.e. Peace Corp and others) people because they signed up and volunteered their service to the country, also the FBI, CIA, and NSA, despite some problems I have with their methods, they still serve this country, I do not count people in Congress because the are politicians, I do count Presidents because that is no cake walk of a job there period, I do not count Supreme Court Justices because it may be unconstitutional

One I don't count Mikey as being a Hero for these facts:
A. He never attempted (i.e. tried but was disqualified medically) or ever signed up for a National Service Program, but instead serves himself and asks what his country can do for him, sorry but documentaries don't count, no ifs ands or buts about it.
B. Re-read A.
C. He was never immediate family of someone who was in a National Service Program, because being a wife or husband of a Military soldier still counts as a Military service, ask any spouse of a military soldier and you will understand why if you can accept information from someone other than yourself and Mikey.
D. With none of the above on his side, apparently I see no reason why he could ever be hero in my eyes, because he cares only for himself, and not for his country despite his documentaries, since when does a film star or director become a Hero, never that's when.
E. All Previous Points Again.

I always pray for peace, so that no more of our people ( and the Country we are
at war with 's people ) will die.

What about the people who do die in the United States, i.e. the homeless, those in Car Wrecks, Police Officers killed by Careless Drivers on the Highways or town roads, what about those who are dieing of hunger, or even the ones who died in and underneath the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon as well. So quickly do we forget the rest of the people in America who are dieing to embrace only one viewpoint and so glaringly miss the entire picture. Death is a reality, all things die, but yet only those who die in wars are under your consideration. What about the innocents who die at the hands of Dictator, or the innocents who die because of a bombing done because inspectors were kicked out and someone needed to take people of his impulsive indiscretions.

Marines as well as my experience from my Army tells me that as a soldier I serve my country, I serve my Army, I serve to Defend the United States,(when ever somebody swears in the Military or Presidency it's there I swear to Defend the United States bit), and if needed I would have died for my country, and I will still die for my country even if it's because I crashed a plane to stop Terrorists from crashing it into a building (the Fourth Airplane that some people forget about, those American Civilians served their Country by crashing that plane to stop the Terrorist from ramming it into some building).

Would you or could you make that sacrifice of giving your life for your country?

If you can't than you need to do some serious introspection and realize that you have fundamental problems in yourself that needs to be addressed before you cause irreparable Psychological damage to yourself. It may be a big leap of faith, but it is one that should be something that one does not need to time to ponder, it is either a yes or no, something you would do unquestioningly, and that is patriotism, true patriotism, not wishy-washy poser patriotism.

Despite my love for the good ole US of A, my goal in life is to teach English Abroad, and hopefully work and live in Japan, because I love the culture and the people, and the fact that even if I leave the USA, USA will always be in my heart, and those who leave the USA with hate for the country are unpatriotic, ungrateful people who should have been born in a Third World so that they can realize that despite some shortcomings America is a great place to be.

As for being a Moderate, I can only ask that you must hang out with a crowd that is so far off the map that to them you seem moderate, for you are not a moderate, Moderate are a balance between Conservative and Liberal Views, in either party, so you can not be a moderate for there is no other view than a liberal extremist view with you, and that is very disturbing.

As for you delivery of answers it seems that no one can have a different view than you, and to do so is just blasphemy to you. Instead having an intelligent debate you blast off with every answer, trying to hammer home your correctness with every answer, and that seems to show an underlining meaning that deep down there is something going off deep inside you that is saying you are wrong. Or it could be the fact that being so defensive of everything could mean that you must support your side because you have tried so hard to believe it that any truth against it must be attacked at all costs to prevent from being shown how wrong that view is.

Work on that delivery, to be so defensive as your answers are given elude to the fact that you are in the wrong.

I think Sigmund Freud might have had a nice study with you, but than again if Freud checked me out he would run screaming

So , since Bush is no war hero , and Kerry is , I assume you'll vote for Kerry?

I personally researched into this subject before commenting on it, and I can tell you George W. Bush tried not once but twice to get into the Palace Alert Program (you can find the info yourself). The Palace Alert program took National Guard Pilots from the States and sent them to Vietnam, but Bush was not accepted both times for not having the minimum flight time requirement of 750 hours (which is a lot for NG Pilots with as little years as he had), Bush also learned how to fly the F-102(?) which was the plane being used in Vietnam at the time. Sounds to me if Bush was trying so hard to avoid Vietnam he should not tried twice to get into the Palace Alert System.

Bush served in the Military he is a Hero, and so did Kerry.

As for Kerry, because his Battle Buddies do not support him neither will I, and if that is not enough, he personally contributed (for political gain mainly) to the atmosphere of HATRED for United States Military Soldiers, which my Uncle, my Close Friends, and my Family's Friends had to return to, when coming back from Vietnam, not to the mention the number of Soldiers who listened to those lies and were so downtrodden that they committed suicide. He may have gotten the Bronze Medal with V Device, and Silver Star with V Device, but wait the second medal does not exist.
A Silver Medal is a medal awarded for Valor, the V device is awarded for Valor, a Silver Star with V Device was never awarded period, because that is redundant, only Silver Stars are given. Kerry condemned an Admiral who had that medal, that Admiral committed suicide, and Kerry said because of that medal it was enough to question the Admiral's leadership abilities.

Kerry may have done a good service in Vietnam, but that was tarnished by his KNOWING BETTER betrayal of the Military, no matter what the military does, only Military try Military, to get out of service and lie about the Military is wrong completely and is like spitting on the graves on every single soldier who has ever fought or died for this country from Revolutionary War to Present.

Kerry does not have the support of his Battle Buddies (term military uses for those who you serve directly with), and that just shows that his leadership is questionable. I can tell you that my former CO,

, First Sergeant, Drill Sergeants, and Battle Buddies would support me, all of them.

As for who I am voting for, I am voting for Badrnik, simply because he wants to decrease the Government, both Reps and Dems want to increase it, as well as securing our borders better, after all 3 Million are expected to come through the US Mexican Border alone, and not all of them are Mexican, if they all were Mexican or South American, I would have no problems with it, but some are coming from Countries that show open hatred for the US and some could be potential terrorists. Both Kerry and Bush want to make it easier for illegals to get papers for US Citizenship.

I don't support Mikey; I just want to see Fahrenheit 9/11 and Fahrenhype 9/11 together for posterity.

I did read the article and just from it, I am leery of watching it, because it seems Mikey had no clear coherence in his film, which sounds to me that it is bad directing and plot layout skills, but he gets an award for it, shows how far Hollywood has gone down when awards are given for Good Directing when the directing was bad.

I guess I can be considered smart and knowledgeable, but I will tell you this I believe I do not know what I simply do not know.

Ugh, off to sleep again, got Philosophy class later today and the subject is God, which I being a Gnostic do not share as far as I know any views that a Christian has, so it's going to be interesting to see if there will be a debate on it.

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kingbee

Join Date 04/2004

+42

), Bush also learned how to fly the F-102(?) which was the plane being used in Vietnam at the time.

the f-102 delta dagger was used incidentally dring the earlier part of the vietnam conflict. but it was first commissioned in 1951, had a higher than average mishap rate and wasnt really suited for the use in vietnam missions.

The Palace Alert program took National Guard Pilots from the States and sent them to Vietnam, but Bush was not accepted both times for not having the minimum flight time requirement of 750 hours

strange that hed apply twice since he and his friend were told the program was going to be phased out before hed have enough hours

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