"Well, there you go again." » Forum Post by MacHuff

In 2000 he went after John McCain -questioning his commitment to veterans and his fitness to serve. After the charges became well known, he distanced himself from the ads and praised the Senator's service.

It’s funny how you get so influenced by one commercial. The Kerry pulled the commercial about the John McCain and Bush debate because the Kerry camp did not show the full debate. What was not shown on the commercial was about 5 more minutes of Bush and McCain agreeing that the man who ran those ads had nothing to do with Bush's Campaign. The South Carolina man who ran those ads also attacked Bush Sr. on his war record in them too. This is just another example of fancy editing. (Refence Bill O'Reilly Factor 26 Aug 04, Bill read the full transcript of the Debate)

During a 2002 campaign Democratic Senator Max Cleland was called unpatriotic, despite the fact that he lost three limbs serving in Vietnam.

What does that have to do with this election? But for your information, he was labeled unpatriotic by his opponent not because of his service to the country (even his opponent stated he honored the man for his service), but because of some of the votes he had cast in Congress.

In 2004, the swift vets for "truth" are disputing Kerry's service despite the fact that most of them have never met or served with him.

If you read the book, not all the 254 people who commented in the book met his, some only know him from the nights they heard his baby killer speech piped into their Hanoi Hilton cells. These vets did not in the book argue his record, only what he did after his returned from Vietnam.

But 64 people in the book did serve on Kerry's boat or in his squadron (That's right Mr. Gardner served the longest under Kerry ON HIS BOAT) a fact the Kerry glosses over.

Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I am all for that statement and it is my motto too but:

You need to learn the true history first; something Kerry does not want people to know about.

Successfully updated karma reason!

It’s funny how you get so influenced by one commercial. The Kerry pulled the commercial about the John McCain and Bush debate because the Kerry camp did not show the full debate. What was not shown on the commercial was about 5 more minutes of Bush and McCain agreeing that the man who ran those ads had nothing to do with Bush's Campaign.

Mr. Bush had the opportunity to denounce the ads as unfair. His silence on these issues speaks volumes-he is happy to let others use smear tactics "for him" and then take the moral high ground himself. It's hypocrtical. He has condemned the 527 ads without mentioning the Swiftboat ads directly, while Mr. Kerry has the honesty to denounce moveon.org's ad questioning President Bush's service.
It is not enough to say "I didn't have anything to do with it", that is the easy road. The Candidates need to have the responsibility to distance themselves from these organizations by denouncing the specific advertisements that are in question. Only one of them has, and that is Mr. Kerry

What does that have to do with this election? But for your information, he was labeled unpatriotic by his opponent not because of his service to the country (even his opponent stated he honored the man for his service), but because of some of the votes he had cast in Congress.

This has everything to do with this election. This is the negative machine behind this party and the President. It worked with McCain, it worked with Cleland, and now they're using the same cheap innuendo when they go after Kerry. I have no problem with anyone questioning a Senator's vote...it's part of the job. However, calling a Veteran's patriotism into question for a cheap soundbite is appalling. How can he honor the man for his service and call him unpatriotic at the same time? Isn't serving your country during war one of the most patriotic acts that anyone can do? Which is he?

If you read the book, not all the 254 people who commented in the book met his, some only know him from the nights they heard his baby killer speech piped into their Hanoi Hilton cells. These vets did not in the book argue his record, only what he did after his returned from Vietnam.

Which is their right, but that is not the focus of the swiftboat campaign. If they, or anyone else, is upset at Kerry's post-war anti-involvement stance, fine, but leave his service out of the argument. Their focus smears his service, and the other crewmen that served with him. They're not only calling Kerry a liar, but men like Jim Rassmussan, who is pretty darned sure that Kerry saved his life.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Did you notice, perhaps, that there are dozens other posts about this on the board at present?

That is what bums me out, because after you refute these kinds of claims on one blog, someone comes and asks the same things, basically starting the whole discussion over. Do you spend the time refuting them again? Or do you let them go on and make lots of accusations unchallenged?

I dunno. I do know that after taking issue with stuff like this on numerous threads I don't have the energy to do it again here. I suggest:

Swift Vets, Moveon.org, and 527's

OK what part of "all" don't they understand?

Swift Boat Veterans Blast Kerry

Vets who served with Kerry cry foul

Kerry's Not-So-Tangled Ties to Smear

Heck, just do a search here on "Swift Boat" and you'll get *tons*. Sorry to be stiff, but if you peruse the other threads you will understand that this has been a harrowing battle for a while and it is rough starting all over again..

Successfully updated karma reason!

You use my quotes as if your about to rebutle, them then just say the same thing again. Did you even read them? They discount each of your points in turn.

This has everything to do with this election. This is the negative machine behind this party and the President. It worked with McCain, it worked with Cleland, and now they're using the same cheap innuendo when they go after Kerry.

WOW, thats news, President Bush questioned Cleland's war record? What would the President care about Cleland's record?

I have no problem with anyone questioning a Senator's vote...it's part of the job. However, calling a Veteran's patriotism into question for a cheap soundbite is appalling.

Did you even read my post? I already said his opponent called him unpatriotic because of his votes, not his war record. You can keep repeating yourself over and over again it will not change the truth. (Oooh thats right your just following Kerry's lead.)

Which is their right, but that is not the focus of the swiftboat campaign. If they, or anyone else, is upset at Kerry's post-war anti-involvement stance, fine, but leave his service out of the argument.

Accualy thier book is an interesting read, but less then one quarter of the book deals with Kerry's records, with only 64 vets from his squadron and from his boat (thats right not all of his crew is with him, Mr. Gardner is the only person of his crew to be with him the full tour) commenting on it. The rest of the book deals strickly with his post war baby killer speech which over 180 people gave statements to. Out of the three ads produced by the group only one questions his record. The other two ads the media just does not cover and Kerry does not talk about so to keep it out of the Media.

Not only will do the SBV call Kerry a liar, but I do too. Even if you leave his war record out of it I still would call him a liar. If you read the other posts in the Forum you will find dozens of examples when Kerry has lied again and again to Congress and the people of the United States.

Successfully updated karma reason!