*gah my socialist lefty brain can't figure out the image link to the picture I wanted*

I'm not trying to say it was a paradise, but it's unfair to say that it was 'free to pursue its own destiny'. It was free within quite set limits, firstly that it not piss off its patron, China, and secondly that it trade with no one else but China.

Socialism isn't all about loving your brother - China exploited the hell out of North Korea. It really didn't stand a chance, although as I said before its choice of a pure socialist system was highly unlikely to work.

If you're going to say that North Korea and South Korea shared equal opportunities after their enforced split, then I don't see why I shouldn't call you out on it. There are lots of good arguments for capitalism. Why build one on an extremely shaky foundation?

Who knows how North Korea would have ended up if it wasn't locked down under trade sanctions?

Appologists love to make excuses.

Quality is the trump to trade sanctions.  If they made anything that anyone wanted, it would find a way around trade sanctions (Oil for Food anyone?????).  The simple fact is they dont make anything that anyone wants.  Or even grow enough food to feed their people! (How do you explain that one?).

Melodramatic?  Perhaps.  Or just a large exclamation point on a very good example.  But then you go buy some carbon credits.  To the faithful of the religion of socialism, no one can debate their god as they are not listening.

Good thing I only use pencils.

Don't forget trade goes both ways.

Cuba makes sugar, medical and tobacco products and services which are popular on international markets. But due to trade sanctions they can't import much in the way of technological supplies. They don't drive 1950s era cars out of an appreciation for the style of the time - they can't actually buy many new vehicles or machinery from anyone.



Huh? Why would buying carbon credits change my mind about the usefulness of incorporating a little socialism into any society?

We all agree that some services should be socialised - the military, the police, roads, taxation and probably other things two. We're really only arguing about the extras. So of course I'm going to think it melodramatic to say "A little bit of socialism is like a little bit of death."

A little bit of socialism is just good sense. The question is really whether or not a lot of socialism is death. And I agree that it's not a good idea. However, North Korea is not a good example of a socialist state, if only because it hasn't had the same opportunities as other states. China is a good example, particularly when you consider that the country is undergoing a shift towards a capitalist dictatorship model. They prove that pure socialism was a failure; if it wasn't they wouldn't be changing.