(L O L) you're reminding me a bit of the time frame around election 2000 (the year that Florida held the country hostage!)

My liberal leaning parents children are all conservative, some more so than others, but all of us lean conservative.  I'm probably the most politically inspired/involved of the bunch and got the most upset at all of the crap that happened then.  The joke of watching the divining of votes was so irritating to me that I could barely stomach it.

Well, Thanksgiving rolled around and we were all supposed to get together at my grandmother's home.  The only problem was that political discussion had long since been ruled out at family get togethers, but invariably such discussions creep up, and given the times, it was going to be inevitable.

I threatened to hold out and not go to the family get together.  My mother wouldn't hear of that, but of course she worked hard on guilting everyone in coming to the family get together.  She was not happy at the thought that I wasn't going to come (nor my family with me) to Thanksgiving.  I wasn't happy at the idea of sitting there with news of 'missing' votes and phantom votes being found down in Florida, and I really didn't like the idea of having to hold my tongue if grandma (who was a bit kooky in her liberal leanings... and yes, probably made Gene look somewhat sane) offered up some stupid comment about Bush stealing the election.

For the most part, we continue to avoid political discussion when we get together.  Talking about it won't change anyone's mind.  The conservatives (my generation) aren't interested in being liberal and the liberals (my parents) aren't interested in being conservatives.

Like you, I've got friends, co-workers, and acquaintances that are liberal.  Some much more so than others.  We don't discuss it that much and instead talk about other things (like TV shows, movies, etc.)  Much less fighting that way.

Aw, recycling's useless Lis. Once the Sun burns out, this planet is doomed. You're just making sure we spend our last days using inferior products.

There's the Bart Simpson take on global warming.  Just had to share.  I sometimes am amazed at how many people just don't know or care what's going on in the world.  I don't understand how people can just check out and not ever watch the news or read a newspaper or at least glance at the headlines on their homepages.  I think it's more interesting to talk to people who care what's going on even if they don't agree with me. 

While that is a good start, it is hardly the answer.  As Gideon pointed out today, and we have seen countless times (Rathergate anyone?), they do make mistakes.  Sometimes honest, sometimes when trying to prove their preconceived prejudices.

Start with the news, and then do your own research.  It sure beats looking like a fool holding up a document printed in the 21st century and claiming it was from the last one.

I have an ultra-conservative friend with whom there is a weekly ritual that involves beer, wings and hockey on the big screen at the bar. The night starts out well enough, we get into the usual topics, current events, politics. After a few hours and several pitchers later we're practically yelling at each other (games over by this point). He's threatening to turn me in as a terrorist and I counter that I'm going to have him and his entire family sent to re-education camps once the glorious communist revolution has come to pass...I always tell him that it's gonna be just like Red Dawn, as all true conservatives seem to have that movie burned into memory pretty good  I really shouldn't be so mean but it's like poking a hornets nest and once you get him all fired up then the real entertainment begins. Once we touch on the middle east, the night is pretty close to being done...or us getting thrown out, although it hasn't happened yet because we're regulars.

By this point in the evening the conversation is highly intellectual. He's saying that papa bush'll do the right thing and turn the entire middle east into a sea of glass "nuke em all!!!! 'ats all you can do, jus nuke em all!" and how all the traitorous liberals should be rounded up and shot. I'm telling him how south and central america will coalesce into an alliance that's going to invade the states and take over, with Hugo Chavez as the "provisional president of the people's states of america", soon to be followed by the war-crimes trials of Bush and most of the congress and senate (and english will be forbidden in spoken or written form, so much so that everyone will have to change their last name to something hispanic) This really gets him going and is the fait d'accompli of the night.

But come next week, we're both back at the watering hole, ready to exercise our God given right to get drunk and tell someone they're a f****ng idiot. It really is constructive dialogue, once you get past the finger jabbing and raised voices (and occasional raised chair, though disapointingly it's never gone to fisticuffs. Alas maybe one day!)