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stevendedalus
stevendedalus
Join Date 11/2003
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The Play, Not Truth, Is The Thing

September 11, 2007 11:23:25 PM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Admittedly Move On went over the top with the use of “Betray us,” which is as bad as Senator Joe McCarthy's utterance to a respected General, “Sir, you are unfit to wear the uniform.”

However, it is fair to say that under the orders of his Commander in Chief, Petraeus surely did way lay us with charts and statistics on the edge of dishonesty. Taking credit because of the surge in Anbar when the sheiks and marines had the situation in hand before then--that is, till four sheiks were blown up yesterday-- is hardly noble. Moreover, to cite casualties, Iraqis and US troops, as fewer than the year before is utterly unrealistic, if not delusional in the McCain vein.

The thrust of the hearings is more of the same: to wit, stay the course and let the next president worry about it. This week has been the theatre of the absurd directed by Bush.

politics
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stevendedalus
ParaTed2k
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Reply #1 September 12, 2007 12:26:03 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
If we held Iwo Jima to the same standard you are holding Patreaus, we lost that battle in disgrace.
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stevendedalus
Dr Guy
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #2 September 12, 2007 8:01:09 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

However, it is fair to say that under the orders of his Commander in Chief, Petraeus surely did way lay us with charts and statistics on the edge of dishonesty.

You just pulled a John Murtha.  You are free to call him a liar when he states:

At the outset I would like to note that this is my testimony.  Although I have briefed my assessment and recommendations to my chain of command, I wrote this testimony myself.  It has not been cleared by, nor shared with, anyone in the Pentagon, the White House, or the Congress until it was just handed out. 

Given his position and responsibilty, I chose to accept him at his word until and unless he is proven to be a liar. Your words are not as harsh or as vulgar as Murtha's or Bourda's, but they are never-the-less the same.

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CharlesCS
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Reply #3 September 12, 2007 4:09:52 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I'm curious to know how is it that every criminal, liar, abuser, jerk and downright worthless person manages to get high positions in our political and military systems? I guess us Americans are just plain to stupid to know who we vote for or who we promote.
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stevendedalus
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Reply #4 September 13, 2007 12:24:25 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

I guess us Americans are just plain to stupid to know who we vote for or who we promote.
Perhaps we should strive to better self-education.

 

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stevendedalus
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Reply #5 September 13, 2007 12:29:17 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Given his position and responsibilty, I chose to accept him at his word until and unless he is proven to be a liar.
Naiveté. It's not that he's a liar; he just follows orders as a good soldier should and not without a wink and a nod. I'm sure the administration received many, many reports from him that he was on the administration's target.
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stevendedalus
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Reply #6 September 13, 2007 12:34:35 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
If we held Iwo Jima to the same standard you are holding Patreaus, we lost that battle in disgrace.
Batshit! 28 days to secure that island at high cost, granted; hardly a comparison when we haven't really secured anything in over four years. 
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Dr Guy
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Reply #7 September 13, 2007 7:48:19 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Batshit! 28 days to secure that island at high cost, granted; hardly a comparison when we haven't really secured anything in over four years.

How many were left alive after it was secured?  Are you proposing that we use the same policy in Iraq?

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stevendedalus
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Reply #8 September 14, 2007 12:16:26 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Are you proposing that we use the same policy in Iraq?
Not quite, though--and I'm beginning to sound like a CD with hiccups--had we used the strategy to win in the beginning we wouldn't be in this mess. I've said it over and over on this site: don't go to war unless you really mean it.   
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Reply #9 September 14, 2007 8:01:26 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Batshit! 28 days to secure that island at high cost, granted; hardly a comparison when we haven't really secured anything in over four years.


But when did Iwo Jima attack the US? What threat were they to the U.S. before we invaded? Over 6,000 U.S. deaths in 28 days?

Face it, if the press was givin you the same mindless marching orders in 1945 that you are goosestepping to now, you would have been calling for Prs. Roosevelt's head.

"The Play, Not the Truth, Is The Thing".. good title, since it describes you to a T
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stevendedalus
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Reply #10 September 15, 2007 12:49:25 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Apparently you don't know about WWII. In the Pacific it was called island hopping--one strategic island at a time. Iwo was necessary to launch the new B29s over Tokyo and Yokohama. Then there was Okinawa--I was in on the first wave--to build more airfields for B17s, and to shake up the Japs back home since we were getting ever so closer. The cost over 12,000 infantry and marines dead and many thousands of sailors from Kamikazes. It might be comforting to you that there is still over 40,000 troops occupying the island. The press seldom criticized the war because unquestionably necessary, though they vehemently raked over Tarawa for the admiralty blunder of failing to take account of tides and coral reefs wherin so many marines drowned before ever getting to the beach.   
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Reply #11 September 15, 2007 1:45:03 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I know the historic facts Stevendedalus. But that isn't what I challenged you on. I am simply stating that if people judged the battle of Iwo Jima (and many battles in WWII) with the same standard they judge the war in Iraq, those battles would fall short too.

In other words, I am saying that for people like you it doesn't matter what the facts are, since you do not agree with the war, you will show your total lack of respect for it, the troops, the commanders and the Commander In Chief.

It's pathetic that you enjoy the respect that you earned in WWII, but REFUSE to respect anyone who has earned it today... just because of your pathetic blind hatred.
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Reply #12 September 15, 2007 1:55:26 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
The press seldom criticized the war because unquestionably necessary, though they vehemently raked over Tarawa for the admiralty blunder of failing to take account of tides and coral reefs wherin so many marines drowned before ever getting to the beach.


It doesn't matter how necessary or unnecessary it was, it's what the commanders said was needed, so all but the most dedicated pacifists were willing to support it. Today we have a press that would rather die than report any positive news about Iraq. We have a congress who turned a deaf ear to Gen. Patreaus's report on the war, and we have a public that is whining because the war is lasting longer than 30 minutes with time out for station identification.

The people of your day didn't care how long the war would take, or what sacrifice they had to make to do their part. It's sad that you enjoyed that support but refuse to give it to the troops today.
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stevendedalus
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Reply #13 September 15, 2007 1:50:09 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
It's pathetic that you enjoy the respect that you earned in WWII, but REFUSE to respect anyone who has earned it today... just because of your pathetic blind hatred.
It is not a question of being for or against as the same as being for the troops or against them! How dare you suggest I do not have a devout respect for those in uniform. I want these enduring men and women and their families to have a better life--fighting in Iraq won't do that. 
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stevendedalus
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Reply #14 September 15, 2007 1:54:35 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
The people of your day didn't care how long the war would take, or what sacrifice they had to make to do their part.
Again, apples and oranges. Then the globe was at stake. I trust there are no fighting men and women of the US and Coalition have their hearts in fighting for Islam--except for those who are actually attacking Al Qaeda.
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Reply #15 September 15, 2007 3:08:07 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
It is not a question of being for or against as the same as being for the troops or against them! How dare you suggest I do not have a devout respect for those in uniform. I want these enduring men and women and their families to have a better life--fighting in Iraq won't do that.


Can you honestly tell me that if heard Congress back then, saying the same things you and many members of Congress are saying today, you would accept that as respect for your efforts and sacrifices?

Again, apples and oranges. Then the globe was at stake. I trust there are no fighting men and women of the US and Coalition have their hearts in fighting for Islam--except for those who are actually attacking Al Qaeda.


My myopic friend. Since when is Al Qaeda the end all, be all of anti western Islamist groups? How does surrendering to Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Syria, Iran and the Iraqi insurgents going to strengthen our resolve to fight Islamist Extremists in the future?

We've proven to them time and time again that we aren't willing to keep up the fight for as long as it takes. They've been at this for decades, yet you and others whine over 4 years. Meanwhile, you make excuses for their attrocities, while over blowing those of our troops.

In other words, you show your willingness to let them win, simply because you don't consider it a fight for the globe... well, guess what, they do.
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stevendedalus
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Reply #16 September 16, 2007 11:20:47 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
My myopic friend. Since when is Al Qaeda the end all, be all of anti western Islamist groups? How does surrendering to Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Syria, Iran and the Iraqi insurgents going to strengthen our resolve to fight Islamist Extremists in the future?
Again you exaggerate in the same vein as the administration. Terrorism is worldwide to be sure and requires vigilance, but it does not mean all-out military operations--such action would totally drain our resources and reap little results.
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