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Zoomba
Zoomba
Join Date 11/2002
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AT&T: We're Watching You

... even if you're not our customer

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June 14, 2007 10:07:59 AM from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Already reviled for their cooperation with the US Government on electronic wiretapping of any data that cross the AT&T high-speed backbone, the newly reconstituted Ma Bell is taking additional steps to further piss off Internet privacy advocates.  Yesterday, it was announced that AT&T would be working with industry groups in Hollywood and the music industry to filter and remove copyrighted materials from their network, a first for a major Internet carrier.

The decision to develop technology to filter out content deemed illegal for violating copyright in and of itself is nothing to get into an uproar over, but in the case of AT&T, the decision not only impacts their customers, but of most Internet users across the US and even the globe.  When you go to connect to some website, send an email, or download a file from a server on the other side of the world, your connection is not always crossing the network of the Internet Service Provider you have an account with.  Packets you send out will take the shortest, fastest route to the destination, which means they may cross the networks of major backbone connectivity providers such as Cogent, or AT&T.  So AT&T taking on the watchdog role can impact everyone, even those who never agreed to an AT&T service agreement.

This decision also calls into question AT&T's common carrier status, which says that if you're just providing the lines of communication, you are not responsible for how anyone uses those lines.  This legal protection prevents someone from suing a phone company because a customer placed a threatening phone call using the service.  With AT&T getting ready to police their lines for illegal content, they're forfeiting that status and protection.

The LA Times is one of many media outlets covering the story.  Check the link below for more.

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Zoomba
Anti Social
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #1 June 14, 2007 11:44:57 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
so, whats to stop data that is encoded/encrypted prior to x-fer and reversed on the receiving machine?
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Zoomba
kin242
Join Date 02/2005
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Reply #2 June 14, 2007 11:47:39 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Thank God that we have such upright and moral companies as AT&T to show us the way. Heaven forbid any entertainment industry gazillionnaires lose out! At last someone is standing up for our obscenely rich celebrities! Priase the Lord!
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Zoomba
RPGFX
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #3 June 14, 2007 3:48:38 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Good for AT&T. I'm glad they're helping fight piracy. The internet has for too long been a place for un-policed illegal activity. Of course some will show jealousy for the entertainment industry, because they rake in so much money (see comment #2), but does that fact make it right for us to steal the music or movies they worked so hard on? No. Whether you steal a candy bar from the five and dime, or a million dollars from a bank, or download a free movie illegally, it's ALL STEALING.
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Zoomba
Quentin94
Join Date 08/2006
+119
Reply #4 June 15, 2007 4:18:11 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Piracy need to be "fight" yes but did you think they will "see/read/open" all the files/mails/personals thoughts you will send via the web and "fights" your liberties/rights?
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Zoomba
RPGFX
Join Date 02/2004
+55
Reply #5 June 15, 2007 12:30:00 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
don't even get me started on the whole liberties/rights thing... people need to learn to accept that everything they do is not going to be perfect. Sometimes you have to give up some privacy for security/justice. As I always say, unless you're doing something illegal, you have nothing to worry about.
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Zoomba
Tomcat2200
Join Date 03/2007
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Reply #6 June 17, 2007 5:31:33 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Piracy has been declining in the US and on the rise in third world countries. Anyone that has had to repurchase their "liscense" on the White Album already knows that the music companies have not dealt fairly with the public. By the laws they pushed through themselves, they have repeatedly breached the liscensing agreements, they themselves have written. They even have managed to get a singular exemption to the FCC rules exempting them from the public domain laws, where anything propagated over airwaves becomes public property. I have little sympathy for people that claim the 500+ "liscenses" I have purchased over the years are meaningless when format standards change, and I am already paying an extra fee on blank media because I "might" record something I haven't already lisenced many times over.

The RIAA has claimed a $750 loss for each song "stolen" and is only now being challenged, for the cost is less than a dollar a hit, online. The numbers are inflated, and the problem is inflated.

I firmly believe that people should get paid for their creative copyright. I do not believe that little Jonny, using daddy's computer and downloading something, constitutes a federal case and abusive claims, anymore than stealing a candybar from the local WalMart merits. Neither the candy company nor WalMart contend a stolen candybar costs them $750 each. And many candybars cost more than the song is online.
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Zoomba
2of3
Join Date 10/2006
+816
Reply #7 June 24, 2007 6:38:13 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Sometimes you have to give up some privacy for security/justice


groan
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Zoomba
Hippie
Join Date 06/2001
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Reply #8 June 24, 2007 8:56:50 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
RPGFX. So, what you're saying is, you have never done anything illegal. Walk on water!
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Zoomba
Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
+1845 sdemployee
Reply #9 June 24, 2007 10:52:23 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

I do not believe that little Jonny, using daddy's computer and downloading something, constitutes a federal case and abusive claims, anymore than stealing a candybar from the local WalMart merits. Neither the candy company nor WalMart contend a stolen candybar costs them $750 each. And many candybars cost more than the song is online.

If piracy/theft was ONLY about ONE item being stolen then yes, it's a piss-weak issue of insignificant proportion....no-one would care, as it is not worth the effort to action.

However...

It is NOT just ONE....it's a wee bit more than several.  The issue is HUGE.

If ALL of Walmart's product were shop-lifted then what pray tell is left to sell/provide income/support manufacturer/pay staff?

Universally it is a real problem....it matters diddly-squat whether it's declining in one sector or not...[were that even true].  We, like it or not now exist in a GLOBAL market and everything impacts on us all, good AND bad....

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Zoomba
HG_Eliminator
Join Date 07/2002
+354
Reply #10 June 25, 2007 5:09:29 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
while I agree that sometimes the goverment needs help in catching bad guys and is a positive factor on cleaning up the internet. service providers shouldnt be allowed to tamper with data packets in order to bankroll special interest groups. breaking personal privacy rights for a govermental watchdog is one thing, but to do it for a special interest group?? what civil liberty are we going to be told were giving up next for some non govermental special interest groups?

whats next the dream police breaking down our doors because we dreamed about a movie we saw, because we reproduced it on an unauthorized medium?(our brains).. you may laugh now but.....


I contend piracy needs to be abolished...but resorting to military state and freely handing over our privacy rights to corporations/special interest groups is not IMO the best way to handle piracy. private civil liberties are being trampled by corporations under the guise of protecting copyrights. it's one thing to remove copyrighted material from sites hosted by their customers.. its another to filter through the general public's emails...I do not personally like the idea of corporations filtering my private messages to my family and friends. My thoughts are mine and are my intelectual property and they should not have the authority to breach my privacy and/or duplicate my material to read or filter on their machines without my prior consent.Thus they would be illegally duplicating my private copyrighted material.....Email should be like regular mail and a felony for tampering/opening it..unless warrented by a goverment faction....


today the general public is treated like criminals..."we know your going to break the law so we will add malware and spyware in to our music CD's to catch you.. sorry if it punches a hole in your security, allows hackers to break in to your PC and steal your data, but thats the price you pay for our DRM..." sounds familiar dont it?

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Zoomba
RPGFX
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #11 July 1, 2007 3:36:26 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
no, actually Hippie, I've not. It's not as unusual as you might think to find actual law abiding citizens. I'm not saying I'm perfect or sinless, but I don't break the law. I've never stolen anything, I've never used drugs, I obey traffic laws. I'm a person with a moral conscience, and I obey the laws of my state/country. Why is that so hard for you to believe?
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Zoomba
bobbyhundreds
Join Date 11/2002
+3
Reply #12 July 1, 2007 3:58:04 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
unless you're doing something illegal, you have nothing to worry about.


Absolutely spot-on RPGFX .
I always wonder about people who think it's ok to get stuff for free on the web (warez etc).What did they all do before the internet?Walk into their local store and help themselves and leave without paying?
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Zoomba
Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #13 July 1, 2007 9:34:39 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

I always wonder about people who think it's ok to get stuff for free on the web (warez etc).What did they all do before the internet?Walk into their local store and help themselves and leave without paying?

No, it's a fundamental issue about Internet use/users....that sees them differentiating between 'material' theft [of a car on the street] and the taking of a piece of software by just a click of a 'download' button.

They will assert there IS no theft.  They do NOTHING wrong.

This is why Koop and I spent all that time and effort dealing/arguing with Customize.Ru, whose Admin/owner so nothing wrong with the taking and re-hosting of intellectual property accessible on the net.

So, what was taken?  Stardock Software [Commercial Products], Premium skins/themes [Commercial Products], and pretty well ALL of the 'better'  freeware skins available here and/or elsewhere.

Why is the latter an issue?  Because here [and other public sites] the owner of the skin personally uploads it, thus consenting specifically to it being hosted for distribution, whilst retaining control of his/her property rights [Copyright].  Eg. if the skinner decides to remove his work from public access....perhaps as he now wishes to go commercial, he just clicks a button and that skin is no longer accessible.  He does NOT get that option on sites he's not even aware may be hosting the work - because he had no say in its placement.  So, he goes commercial with that skin....charges for it....and wonders why no-one is buying it.....because lo and behold it is still freely accessible on some pirate site in darkest Mongolia.

THEN there's the issue...... HTF do you calmly explain all that in Cyrillic text?...

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